IRC log started Mon Feb 7 00:00:03 2000 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0207 hm. combinators relate to some slate ideas sort of slate though happens to be squarely applicative water: check ur web design sw for meta tag and ssi support (when u feel like it) k if no ssi emulation then pages wont look right to u locally heh. the only thing i have under winblowz is M$ frontpage :) heard plenty o' bad things about it, never used it, dont know what it supports it's just very simple wysiwyg it doesn't support ssi or any interesting meta tags lack of local ssi shouldnt be too bothersome does the sitemap need to be generated? i don't think it does neither did i 12:10am so u can write the sitemap page ;) :P which means it won't get written :) why do u feel u need one? i don't but the site could get complicated when it does, we'll add it otherwise the home page can handle linking and describing the other pages otoh, "long-range" planning right now seems like a few months also supported by a header and/or footer ok so, hmm last_mod to used at the bottom of home? and at the top for home itself sure s/to/to be/ at the top? for the home file itself ok i guess hmm, and somewhere make it clear that overall, the last update was [insert newest last_mod] hmm header/footer/last_mod, what else? uhh pretty pictures? :) that's plenty for now online bookstores really suck 12:20am they literally *require* you to know in advance the nature of the books contents have u seen the brix's info pages? yes i had a little hand in the design (a long time ago) the last mod date iz at the top of each page (well near top) plus, he does simple prev, next nav anything u like? the color scheme and graphics look terrible, but it seems nice u can make up ur header(s) and/or footer(s) now if u wish even if the ssi thing doesnt work out, i'l just whip up a script to do it honestly i wouldn't know where to begin... strictly functional will do 12:30am what r u doing for header(s) and/or footer(s)? just a navbar? yeah you could probably do it in less time [ home | collab | detail | manifesto | members | semantics | syntax | why ] ? that'd be fine minus the manifesto? oh yeah, minus that and plus news i never could rationalize the manifesto sure hell, let's just make it a frame ;) * hcf/#tunes ignores that lol i figure the navbar should be in the same order as the links at the bottom of home for which, news imo should be higher in the list -:- kc5tja [kc5tja@cx248891-a.ocnsd1.sdca.home.com] has joined #tunes where? first, 2nd, ...? hello kc Howdy. today's definitely a day for random visitors water: what placement do u prefer when it appears on other sites? * kc5tja/#tunes isn't exactly "foreign" to TUNES. I just don't visit that often. i never have considered it ok, for now, 1st place Just checking in. Unfortunately, I have an object model to implement for work. :/ 12:40am Talk to you folks a bit later on, as I get the time. :) -:- kc5tja [kc5tja@cx248891-a.ocnsd1.sdca.home.com] has left #tunes [] ok, kc anyway /me is outta here where does a FAQ fit into this? -:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (KVirc 1.0.0 Millennium BETA 3) bah. it can wait for later and how long is a temporal bit? wrt what? wrt is With Respect To heh wrt his laterness oh [ home | news | faq | why | detail | syntax | semantics | collaboration | members ] ? sure if the navbar gets too long ur can hide semantics and syntax under detail and why under faq well ideally it could be reduced to [ home | up | news | (subs) ] huh? huh what? "why under faq"? why call it slate, probly answers a FAQ oh yes hm ok seemingly, theres 3 ways [ ], [ home | prev | next ], or both w/ the possible variance on the prev/next, [ home | prev(name) | next(name) ] ok, now an faq 12:50am whatever works user configurable layout? ;) heh well i'm going to take care of some things k, i'm going soon anyway i mean, i'm going offline for a while 01:00am bi cya tomorrow -:- water [water@tnt-9-191.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff washort: #TUNES (Ping timeout for washort[d116.narrowgate.net]) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) 01:10am -:- smokie [tw026024@zaalf01.twi.tudelft.nl] has joined #tunes IRC log started Mon Feb 7 07:56:08 2000 [msg(modtunes)] permlog 2000.0207 IRC log started Mon Feb 7 07:56:58 2000 -:- bineng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #modtunes hi hi :) I haven't been here in ages -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #TUNES -:- mode/#tunes [+o Tril] by ChanServ the chan registration expired hum went down at 0300 pst up now Tril: good work thx 08:00am 08:00am Tril: does serving .shtml (SSI) on bespin already, or does it require some configuration? It should be turned on, someone asked for that feature s/already/work already/ ok, cool how about the xbit hack? ok I checked, mod_includes is loaded, and includes are allowed in users/*/html I dont know what that is the xbit hack is where u chmod +x a .html and it is treated like a .shtml apache only and how is that enabled i dont recall, could probly find it just put 'xbithack' in apache.org's search or grep the local docs well at first occurence I would rather not do it in case some user accidentally does +x, I dont know what would happen maybe it would be slower? i guess there's some security concern with shtml i dont need the xbithack and i could route around the lack of ssi this is for water's slate pages btw just to include header/footer and do stuff w/ last_mod dates and such but, ssi is already enabled right? yes so forget the xbithack brb 08:10am why is everyone logging on to FTP for less than a minute and doing nothing (iepos and hcf)? is that what it looks like when you get the passwrd wrong? mine was just a mistake ment a diff host dunno about iepos 08:30am -:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (school) -:- SignOff thomas_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas_[193.217.63.152]) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-331.ici.net] has joined #tunes -:- thomas_ [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff bineng: #TUNES ( ) -:- SignOff bineng: #modtunes ( ) * Fare/#tunes is back yay!@ 09:20am -:- SignOff thomas_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas_[193.217.63.152]) -:- thomas_ [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES -:- mode/#tunes [+o Tril] by ChanServ -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (brb) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn9.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (brb) Tril: you should beep me to attract my attention 10:10am -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-331.ici.net] has left #tunes [] -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn9.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff hcf: #modtunes (Leaving) -:- SignOff thomas_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas_[193.217.63.152]) -:- thomas_ [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes -:- bineng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes g hi 12:50pm -:- SignOff thomas_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas_[193.217.63.152]) -:- thomas_ [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes /c 01:20pm -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-131-202.s202.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes join #osdev 02:20pm -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- ult [noone@user-38lc656.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes hmm 02:30pm -:- tib [supaero@rezoo.supaero.fr] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff tib: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us212.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us212.javanet.com] has joined #modtunes -:- mode/#modtunes [+o hcf] by ChanServ -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z!) -:- Dome [user2549@usr959-kno.cableinet.co.uk] has joined #tunes Anybody now a good mp3 ftp server knowbody says anything cool eh? -:- Dome [user2549@usr959-kno.cableinet.co.uk] has left #tunes [] 03:40pm hmm deceptive channel name anyway, I'm outa here -:- SignOff bineng: #TUNES ( ) -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Read error to ult[user-38lc656.dialup.mindspring.com]: Connection reset by peer) -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System || slate -:- ult [noone@user-38lcn6b.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes 03:50pm -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-138-51.s51.tnt5.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- raja [raja@air-183-39.air.on.ca] has joined #tunes hiya 04:40pm hi -:- TheBlueWizard [TheBlueWiz@pm33-44.chantilly.pressroom.com] has joined #tunes 05:00pm -:- lar1 [larman@2Cust39.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes Hey hiya lar1 05:20pm -:- ult [noone@user-38lc6ct.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes -:- TheBlueWizard [TheBlueWiz@pm33-44.chantilly.pressroom.com] has left #tunes [] -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- washort [washort@d121.narrowgate.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Read error to eihrul[usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net]: EOF from client) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net] has left #tunes [] -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes Make up yer mind, eihrul ;) -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving) 06:30pm -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@tnt-9-78.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes hey all hey hm a new version of gbeta is out... not spectacular but oh well well, what'd be good to work on tonight? no idea heh. ever the helpful one :) so basically you don't see any major problems consistency-wise yet? 07:00pm i haven't started anything yet :) i know, but you must have been thinking the ideas over, haven't you? om had no time during school ok no problem then i probably should start tonight even just a toy implementation would be good even a toy implementation is a bit more than a toy :) heh it's not like building a forth interpreter or anything... -:- lispbliss [lispbliss@cont01p31.ont.micron.net] has joined #tunes scwm supposedly has a some great "constraint" features..anyone know what that means? sny scheme would support constraints quite nicely, i think sny? s/sny/any well, I don't really know exactly what constraints are.. oh but I am interested in how they are useful in a window manager they would be very useful any exampleS? constraints allow you to take equations as state-machines and bind values anywhere, and have the binding reflect in all variable accesses sicp has some good stuff on constraints though there are probably better references America is ruled by a government of thieves. I'm still trying to get through that [boring] book.. =\ i happen to like that book! 07:10pm * AlonzoTG/#tunes is fuzzy on how the concept of state machines relates to high level programming.... water, it is so boring! :) state machines model language fragments mmm, yet another book i own that i have no time to read... uh lispbliss: to have "lisp" in your nick, and not like a scheme book seems a bit silly :) yeah I need to do fucking english 112 assignment... eihrul: howz your hacking going? ready to make a HAL9k? water, its just that the book is so boring.. water, but I guess it is difficult to write a book like that and have it not be boring. dude, if i only read boring books, i wouldn't know anything that i *do* know AlonzoTG: perhaps an AI library for slate :) Has Larry Wall (perl creator?) written any books? he sure is a good writer! eihrul: shhh. that's for later ;) * eihrul/#tunes needs summer... aka the time of many books larry wall is a moron ult, hmm, maybe, I don't know, but he is a very interesting author. if u want to see boring go rent 2001. i have seen it before but rented it again and i dont remember it being that damn boring. took it back before watching 30 minutes of it w/query 2001 is great bah no it just went on and on with nothing happening air: you're just dense like this guy was joggin around the ship for like 10 minutes well there isn't a single spoken word for the first 30 minutes of the moovee... air: they were trying to convey the feelings that those astronauts had KUBRIK IS GOD!!! heh well, that was Frank Poole and don't you forget it! * ult/#Tunes notes that 2001 the movie was almost as good as the book =P though it was different =/ water: well i have better things to do then watch some guy jog in a circle for 10 minutes whatdidjyathink of the HAL 9k? air: then you don't appreciate what the movie was trying to convey I want a GREUI this is pointless GREUI ROCKS!!!! =) or a GRNUI... Glowing Red Nose? no Glowing Red Nipple User Interface you tweak it ha ha! * eihrul/#tunes ponders where named slots fit into the sexp-as-objects model... well 2001 in fast forward, was slower than any other movie that i have seen eihrul: They don't What is the chance that the average everyday hacker will understand the first thing about tunze if it is finally finished? -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us212.javanet.com]) -:- SignOff hcf: #modtunes (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us212.javanet.com]) alonzo: About 12% eih: clos has them my thoughts too... 07:20pm What is the point of tunez if it can't be used by the average preson.... I am clearly moronic enough to be average... =\ water: the issue is not that slots have names at all, but how sexp relates to it... * ult/#Tunes ponders a sexp as an object AlonzoTG: ha. Are all Slate sexps' objects? * water/#tunes ignores AlonzoTG's meaningless ramblings no, but they construct objects -:- SignOff lispbliss: #TUNES (ircII EPIC4-2000 -- Accept no limitations) * ult/#Tunes nods AlonzoTG: What good is a newborn baby? water: but what of named slots... :) eih: yes then whats the difficulty? it's not meaningless! Its meaning comes from the fact that I am procrastinating on my english assignment though I have to have it in by tomorrow morning early... eih: that's how clos works atg: Sux, donit? water: /me sighs... do elements of a sexp have names for their respective values!? Toonze won't work with any symbolic language. atg: you're an idiot eih: no, the values are the names Forth is good because you can send the symbols on a LSD trip. =) forth's libraries are too small, generally. =) small is good. water: so, then what is the value of an uninitialized slot? :) not for libraries. but that's not the point I have 32 megs of ram and people on my local LUG mailinglist are complaining of thrashing problems with 64 mb ram... that's why I don't use linux. geez eih: what do you think it should be? nil? i've used linux on a machine with 4mb of ram in fact my first linux machine had 4mb of ram * washort/#tunes nods well yeah, linux wouldn't install on my 900 mb partition! =\ Why not just give unitialized slots a 'uninitialized' property AlonzoTG: huh? eih: though perhaps there's a more slate-like solution to that they error if read to water: as good a value as any... but manipulating a sexp's elements as the names of slots could be partially troublesome er, read from LINUX SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! eih: actually, i think i'm confusing the issue AlonzoTG: No, just the people on your local LUG mailinglist. * AlonzoTG/#tunes falls into a state of "linux sucks dimentia" atg: so do you If I get this fucking english 112 assignment done I'll be one of the 1337.... =\ atg: in clos, objects are sets of slots, represented as sexp's s/atg:/eih: sexp = ? =\ s-expression uh oooohhh. now I vaguely remember... (lots (of (parentheses))) atg: (+ 1 2) water: that's nice and all, but the names of these slots complicates things... :) * AlonzoTG/#tunes learns most of this shit but has a shitty/over used memory.... s/cates/cate/g eih: explain I hate my brain. well, for instance, i don't believe we have any way to access the name of a slot... atg: so do i eih: i thought slots would be accessed by name, though? :) clarifying: "Parentheses? What parentheses? I haven't noticed any parentheses since my first month of Lisp programming. I like to ask people who complain about parentheses in Lisp if they are bothered by all the spaces between words in a newspaper..." (foo bar baz) constructs an object with slots whose names are 'foo,' 'bar,' and 'baz' 07:30pm ok i think i follow that so that means... (5 (+ (5))) huh? huh what? * water/#tunes breaks the glass over the Non-Sequitur alarm just in case :) what the hell do you think (5 (+ (5)) means? well, i know what it should do... but how it's represented is anybody's guess... what do you think it should do? send the selector '5' to the enclosing object send the selector '+' to that particular object that'd been looked up.... i don't like the use of an operator, but i'll allow this for argument's sake it isn't an operator... its a message now that's wierd as hell! not when i get done with re-write ;) now... after '+' has been looked up in '5', it lookups + applies the next '5' selector... then applies the '+' to the previous '5' whoa that's screwed up well it's the only unambiguous way i've found so far to allow for message-ish semantics :) + doesn't have to be a method, you know you need to get an imagination, dude uh... then what is it? so far, all slate has is objects... + could be an object that when bound to 5 and 5, has a result of 10 the only thing it can be is an object duh if u expect tunes to go anywhere then it must have games. and to get games it needs to be in the home, and to be in the home it must be usable by idiots. yer little language isnt usable by an idiot :) but selectors aren't jsut any objects shut up air that's just saying + is a function... yes it's not a selector, iow method/function, its not relevent to the discussion yes it is relevant this is about syntax, right? the issue here is not what the code does... but how it's *represented* so? we want a simple unified syntax, right? * eihrul/#tunes nods... and right now you don't have one no, *you* don't have one :) this ain't smalltalk or self i'm not doing this their way -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Read error to lar1[2Cust39.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net]: Connection reset by peer) (a (b c))... does this say an object with three slots named "a" "(b" and "c)".... or does this say an object with 2 slots named "a" and "(b c)" or neither? maybe it doesn't om perhaps the sexp has to be explicitly passed to an evaluator 07:40pm what's with this "slot" concept? How does it contribute to the tunze vertual machine? yes, but the issue of syntax is really cloudy :) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us1002.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us1002.javanet.com] has joined #modtunes -:- mode/#modtunes [+o hcf] by ChanServ and having sub-expressions being denoted as the names of slots of objects seems rather un-sexpish Do you have any idea what the tunes virtual machine will look like? well, the semantics work atg: shut up unless the name of a slot may be any arbitrary object hm =\ I need some compilers and a good moronic OS. but the name of a slot is just a symbol it consequently seems that sub-expressions should be the values of the slots... brb -:- water [water@tnt-9-78.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- water [water@tnt-10-143.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes hold on, afk 07:50pm ugh! I was playing around with my mouse noting how the convergance on my monitor went to hell in the upper right and all of a sudden word perfect throws a divide by 0 ecception and crashes! =P should you expect less? -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Read error to AlonzoTG[216-164-138-51.s51.tnt5.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]: Connection reset by peer) -:- water [water@tnt-10-143.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.139.201.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp127.lvdi.net]) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp217.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp217.lvdi.net] has left #tunes [] -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp217.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes 08:00pm eihrul: Bad connection? -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[dialup-209.245.139.201.SanJose1.Level3.net]) 08:10pm -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh4-port214.snet.net] has joined #tunes -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.103.84] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff washort: #TUNES (Ping timeout for washort[d121.narrowgate.net]) -:- water [water@tnt-10-100.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes ok back was playing with ethernet-connections with my various oses k so where were we with syntax? 09:10pm somewhere about what exactly it means... heh -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp347.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp347.wi.centurytel.net] has left #tunes [] do u have beos 5? no, 4.5.2 oh although i'll see about upgrading * eihrul/#tunes feels as if he's drunk... although he's never been drunk. why complexity complex hm. user-aiuthentification via typing style recognition 09:20pm it has to be a reflective style recognition system just in caser you had too much coffeee and your typing looks like tttthhhhiiiissss a security system that uses DNA matching technology to compare saliva samples obtained when someone speaks into a microphone to pass a voice-recognition test... phear. * ult/#Tunes chortles shit a fake test :( a fake test?