IRC log started Sat Dec 11 00:00:01 1999 wow. an updated tunes reflection review page. cool [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1211 wow cool it even has the AGT link, amongst other new paper links and knowledge-level reflection, too cool * Downix/#tunes is pondering water: is there anything i could do for u?, seeking etc * water/#tunes considers this i'm okay for tonight, thanks k ok there seem to have been a hell of a lot of squeak updates yup Downix: how about u? Right now I just need to ponder how ti impliment the kind of OS I want * Downix/#tunes should look Core's Clementine over, see how it works 12:10am btw, i'm now the reactor department's lan administrator and "head programmer" on the aircraft carrier where i work hmm, cool pretty crazy for a 22-yr old dropout i have middle-aged careerists looking to me for help cool the only problem is that they transferred my job because the software system has serious problems we have a two-month lag in some places because multiple databases are manually synchronized hmm, major lag it's a really frustrating setup mostly because the database maintainers don't work together (of course, i'm going to make sure that changes really quickly) .em nods good idea the department head has been cracking the whip unnecessarily because he's been getting delayed info * Downix/#tunes nods he thinks his people are all lazy and incompetent because of the reports he gets from the software anyway... :) One thing I hate is GUI apps locking up, like Netscape i'm still waiting for a new re-vamped netscape 12:20am yup Mozilla is going well tho i definitely like the open directory work .em nods * Downix/#tunes nods 12:30am Mozilla is shaping up nicely the squeak development is really starting to flower ok, time for bed * Downix/#tunes nods g'nite -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-47.ici.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff td: #TUNES (Ping timeout for td[1Cust122.tnt3.wilmington.nc.da.uu.net]) 12:40am -:- bambi [user8276@24.66.138.186.bc.wave.home.com] has joined #tunes hi bambi hi i haven't been around for a month or so are you interested in tunes? what is the drift of the conversation on this channel well, mostly writing oses and programming language ideas yes have recently started exploring mp3 ah. this isn't quite the same thing 01:00am -:- water has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: A Free Reflective Computing System Project at http://tunes.org/ i have a feeling i just came into a unverity level chat on tunes and my knowledge is at the elementary level well, any programming-like discussion is cool (especially since most here are away) is ther any discussion taking place there hasn't been for 2 hours, i'm afraid sowhere are all of the users listed well, abi's the infobot, and TUNES is the logger abi seen Fare? Fare was last seen on IRC 4 hours, 57 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: bye! [Fri Dec 10 20:09:13 1999] * Fufie/#tunes yawns.. sleep was nice hmm. he's the Tunes project leader hi fufie hi water, hi bambi hello fulfie fufie: got anything to talk about? breakfast? I came in here thru a n eror so think i will try to find my way back why tunes, bambi? fuf: k of all places mp3's, i'm guessing I have some LotR mp3s never ctually played them 01:10am lotr = ? lord of the rings geeky tome of all times good night to anyone in the americas , top pf the morning to those in europe and g`day to any aussies or anyone in Asia have fun cool -:- bambi [user8276@24.66.138.186.bc.wave.home.com] has left #tunes [] it's weird... i think that i've found a religious counterpart to linux which is? BizOS? "falun dafa" it's this combination of buddhism with taoism they teach it for free, have no idea how many practitioners there are beyond about 10 million or so and the texts are "open source" and free weird the bible is also gratis but they'll kill you if you change parts and republish yeah 01:20am -:- change_m1 [user8455@brk-22-144.tm.net.my] has joined #tunes hahahahahhhahah hahahahahhhahah hi [change_m1(user8455@brk-22-144.tm.net.my)] hi how re u how re u where re u from seattle i'm fine im from malaysia near singapore or elsewhere? yes near singapore cool i was there for a few days last november have u been to singapore before oic still study or what actually, i am in the us navy oic seal hehe no, i work on nuclear reactors in aircraft carriers ive been watching seal on tv ok quit interesthing job is it dengerous it could be, theoretically ok gtg we are mostly just very careful all of the time 01:50am ok gtg anyway, are you a programmer? no im still study at local university -:- change_m1 [user8455@brk-22-144.tm.net.my] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that way!) 02:00am -:- SignOff tmf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for tmf[193.217.63.152]) -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) -:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- binEng [bineng@e161.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: king.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [04:44am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [king.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: king.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-14.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[e161.ryd.student.liu.se]) -:- binEng [bineng@e161.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn131.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@tnt-9-107.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes hey water hey what's new? well, i've been reading up on various theories to help refine the rest of the arrow spec i also met a fellow on the ship who's a lisp-style language designer and introduced him to tunes and arrow and you? hello hey bin and i'm also shifting my computer work to my casio e-100 (handheld) water: If I might ask a question about Arrows... I never got how you know what arrows point to a certain arrow. Searching the whole arrow universe must be out of question. bin: semantically, that's what you have to do... search the entire arrow universe bin: of course, i'm working on ways to make that a meaningful task ok.. can ontologies help? for one, special data structures which contain the relevant arrow info could be optimized for connection-searching yeah, they can, but i'm still working out how to support ontologies via the vm spec another approach is to always answer the computable connections with the argument, and always return with it an 'and everything else outside of X' quantifier sounds on you like ontologies is some extra feature, aren't they inseparable from the design? sort of 05:30am they're supposed to be the most natural way to build semantics from arrows, but i have to figure out how the vm has to support basic arrow and graph structures in order to support this kind of semantic structure the way the paper states (sorry about the long sentence) ic How does Arrows scale? Is a distributed system possible? well, distributed systems would hopefully be implemented by using ontologies for communicating results of computations er... protocols, really but arrow data must be accessible even when it's not changing.. the idea is that there's a mutually available spec for the data structures passed around that maintains semantic content across nodes a protocol, in other words yes, but semantic protocols like in natural language I don't follow.. you have basic ascii protocol for the IRC, but then there's the meaning provided by lots of formal teaching out there which allows us to use the same words in all sorts of contexts that mean different things but then, we can even _reflect_ on that by coming up with new ways to express ideas If semantics comes thru ontologies, and ontologies are native parts in the system (as arrows), it seems to me that protocols doesn't have to care about semantics in the system our new ways are only available to us unless we 'publish' them in relation to existing published semantic standards hm not sure how you're using the term 'protocol' you mean like ppp? protocol for inter-host communication 05:40am I can't say i'm not concerned with low-level representation for the purpose of the discussion i'm saying that when nodes in a distributed computation pass around numbers, the receiving nodes have to hve the appropriate ontology to help determine what those numbers mean ah, yes.. where "have the appropriate ontology" could be statically-determined (wrt the computation) so that you'd just be talking about the results of the computation after the fact in terms of what it means the nodes just have to treat the data consistent with the computational model of the 'problem domain' * water/#tunes rests do you intend Arrows to run everything down to the hardware itself? In such case there's no need for such a protocol I'm talking about. I meant a protocol to make machine boundaries invisible for the distributes Arrow system. Instead you need something much more complicated yes, eventually i see os's being replaced by arrow schemes of operation until then, arrow will have to float on top of existing protocols say, an arrow vm bytecode system Yes, that makes sense. I guess distributed computing can wait. well, it might not be so hard come to think of it, i've yet to see a distributed lisp maybe plisp Don't ask me :) 05:50am heh isn't it better to base hardware on arrows directly then? s/better/easier i've never figured out how it would be easy to have a memory and processor system based on references rather than bit-fields but then, i'm no hardware genius i'd suppose the processors would live alongside the memory then but it would be an interesting alternative. if possible. ie each arrow could be memory as well as processor, somewhat like human braincells maybe a dpga, then * water/#tunes tries to get the squeak files onto his pda -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[15dyn131.delft.casema.net]) 06:00am well, i'll be back later -:- water [water@tnt-9-107.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn118.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes 06:10am hmm.. suits are expensive I am $800 poorer.. I could have bought more memory or a new processor for those money :-/ 06:30am * zarq/#tunes is back from being away: trug an $800 suit must be a pretty one =) the suit was only $400 but all sorts of other clothing brought it to $800 06:40am ah i see. $400 is a decent processor anyhow 06:50am I wonder if suits (the people) have extra clothing allowances in their contracts i don't think so.. that's why they're always wearing the same one years on end =) 07:00am -:- water [water@tnt-10-31.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes b -:- water [water@tnt-10-31.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] 07:10am * Fufie/#tunes yawns -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp55.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-139-198.s452.tnt5.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Read error to smoke[15dyn118.delft.casema.net]: EOF from client) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn118.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes gakuk gakuk 10:00am -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial755.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes FOO! BAR? yes, indeed 10:10am So what's up? -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-81.ici.net] has joined #tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-139-198.s452.tnt5.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes Hey Al, Downix Hi everybody Beta 1 out yet? hey Kaufmann lol 0.0000001 isn't out yet 8) hum * Fare/#Tunes hides * Kaufmann/#tunes goes after Fare with torches and pitchforks 10:20am nu? why isn't anybody else talking? om cuz wer meditating. I would if I had anything to say... I'm waiting for someone to talk about something 8) FYI, it's snowing here ;) * Kaufmann/#tunes maims and massacres binEng with a sharp pointy stick hey, that hurts! hmm sorry 'bout that... it's summer here Where? Brazil? I'm pondering sound synthesis now yep Kaufmann: Do you ever get snow down there? bin, very occasionally, some years, at the extreme South (near the Uruguayan and Argentinian borders) k hmm How do most sound cards work? well, let's start with NAND gates... :) hehe 10:30am I guess they work by manipulating high-quality recorded samples of real instruments at standard pitches that's MIDI yup ah yes I'm curious about FM synth well, as far as I can see, it's just waveform manipulation downix; d'you know the sid chip ? Yup smoke: Somewhat, I know how great it sounded. Even know some of how to program it downix; i've been working on some sort of sid-like based sound synthesizer for some time * AlonzoTG/#tunes wants a midibox for his sound card but needs 512mb dimm first. =P any good references on digital sound programming? and a job before that... HIRE >>>> ME <<<< smoke: Oh? Details please? AlonzoTG: The sooner we get this damned thing together, the sooner you'll be hired, k? yep... * Downix/#tunes does not have this problem with any other of his potential hires meanwhilest I am in negotiations with this moron who wants me to work on some sort of nanotech project for him. oy heh. oooooh, nanotech my parents are yelling at me every 23 minutes to get a job... I'm really urgent here! downix; oh very simple sound synthesis.. i make waves of pulse,triangle,sine,noise or sawtooth, and then ring-, amplitude-, frequency modify those * Downix/#tunes nods don't worry, when I said this guy is a moron I mean he is a Moron. downix; the only thing sophisticated to it is the low/highpass filters the NES did that... what did the nes? hmm Al, enlighten me... what exactly is the difference between a moron and a Moron? 10:40am the latter is stupider than the former. ah in that case, what is a Mormon? some amaracanized christian sect. Mormon is a Morom with an extra layer of stupidity 8) exactly what did the pegan say after the christians took over his town? "They've wronged my rites! =(" lol! I was wondering... just how does this classification system? Do you just count the name of capitalized letters? Or do you account capitals as 1's and others as 0's, and convert the result to decimal? moron would be 00000 = 0; Moron would be 10000 = 16; MORON would be 11111 = 31 10:50am yup 11:00am Are mormons the followers of Joseph Smith? Think so This one is offensive (rot13): WRFHF VF PBZVAT! -- Ner lbh tbvat gb fcvg be fjnyybj? hmm oops, wrong channel 6 ... ... 4 .`....`.'....'. 3 ............... 2 ........... ; ..... : . 2 AAAAAAARGH WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? mistake minute Aww Kaufmann, I didn't know you cared! 8) I think our I/O hardware have developed intelligence and are conspiring over the Internet to make us all look stupid hehehe -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fufie[tunnel-44-14.vpn.uib.no]) -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp55.lvdi.net]) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp55.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes Egads -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-14.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes hmm Kauf: no need to conspire to make us all look stupid -- we ARE stupid heheh indeed 11:10am so they are in fact conspiring to make us look smart so that we forget that we are stupid and they can fool us, taking advantage of our arrogance, and take over the world Yup -:- Kaufmann is now known as KaufmannBRB -:- KaufmannBRB is now known as Kaufmann ok 11:20am heh, the Moron responded! =P * AlonzoTG/#tunes reeds what he has to say for himself. who? 11:30am -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("640K should be enough for anyone." - Bill Gates, 1981) any common lisp enthusiast around?L I'm learning it 11:40am I disslike windows enough not to buy a microsoft product ever again. But this doesn't mean that I don't HATE LINUX!!! * AlonzoTG/#tunes has penguin stuffing all around his room... * AlonzoTG/#tunes is lying but wants to continue. -:- hcf [nef@209.94.148.177] has joined #tunes I mean I have MASSACRED the little monsters! LINUX IS EVIL!!! Why do you hate Linux Alonzo? it's just an OS kernel downix; what implementation do you use? I HATE THE ENTIRE LINUX DISTRIBUTION. EVERY SINGLE PERVERTED LITTLE BYTE OF IT. smoke: Right now Enoch enoch is a common lisp? AlonzoTG: hey... the bytes by themselves are pretty ok downix; i meant common lisp implementation AlonzoTG: it is just when the bytes work together smoke: Oh, I thought you were talking Linux. For CLisp I use Harliquins AlonzoTG: Depends on the distro. Well other unixes are only half a wit better. downix; harlequin cl isn't free is it? smoke: They have a free "personal" beta of it * AlonzoTG/#tunes is a computer person that hates all OSes. =\ downix; hm. i don't think i like getting addicted to a commercial product :) alonzo ;)) smoke: Well, yup AlonzoTG: Then why make one? downix; have you tried another ? cmucl or clisp? I have just downloaded clisp, have not tried it yet i have tried it and it works, but i couldn't get CLX things to work (there was a sokoban and qix supplied, but i couldn't get it to run) i have also tried cmucl 18b from 1998, but that doesn't work on my linux.. so i'll try a cvs snapshot or so ok * Downix/#tunes is right now reading a bunch of comments about the future of Amiga and laughing his ass off on how stupid people are "I wanna G4 w 3DFx Amiga" Uh, hate to say it, but an Amiga 1000 w/ a few add-ons is faster than that setup 11:50am www.cons.org is in a terrible condition :( hrm? what is that? www.cons.org is where i learned about common lisp implementaitons www.cons.org/clisp/, www.cons.org/cmucl/ ok I went to lisp.org hm. of course i omitted the obvious. -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[e161.ryd.student.liu.se]) lol 8) aha! that's www.alu.org i've been there ok * Downix/#tunes is right now listening to idiots on a web site saying total bs about the Amiga eek - 12 free implementations * smoke/#tunes likes amiga demos Amiga was an awesome machine My machine will blow it away 8) downix; i have an a500 here and it's working, do you have any idea how i can transfer files to it without having the needed software? downix; it has a 20mb harddisk smoke: Got a parallel port on your PC? yup Then buy Ami-PC Link $50, sets up a laplink-like connection between an Amiga and a PC 12:00pm Works pretty good Downix: how about PC2Amiga? same thing they both work great what's that then? i suppose there won't be a diskette with linux software along with that ? :) can't i hook the harddisk to my ide controller ? You could do that too I've done that, since Linux reads the Amiga FFS I'm working on a driver to plug the Amiga floppy into a PC as well through the Catweasel card well, for Linux 8) http://ftp.wustl.edu/pub/aminet/comm/misc/PC2Am308.lha The problem is you need to get that program onto the Amiga 8) Plugging in the HD to a PC tho would work icuc, http://www.dynamix.force9.co.uk/siamese/main.htm My 2 gig drive in my PC is an Amiga HD Siamese is more for re-targetable graphics last time i tried the hd wasn't recognized * Downix/#tunes tried it, neat trick, but ultimately not that useful smoke: You need the affs added to your linux config built-into your kernel downix; no the bios didn't recognize it hm perhaps i need to enter the sectors/heads by hand 12:10pm can't recall i tried that smoke: Try that i'll try that -- brb -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) 12:20pm -:- left [left@photon.lux.ufal.br] has joined #tunes -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn118.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes it didn't work hey Smoke damn 12:30pm -:- left [left@photon.lux.ufal.br] has left #tunes [] -:- binEng [bineng@e161.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes the screen wouldn't turn on so i had no chance to setup the bios oh man -:- lispbliss [lispbliss@cont01p13.ont.micron.net] has joined #tunes 12:40pm Anyone remember who it was in here yesterday talking about realtimebattle? nope hey smoke, this guy here may be able to help you with LISP depends..what is the question? forgot now Smopke? Smoke? * Downix/#tunes pokes Smoke lispbliss: hi shi Fare