IRC log started Sat Nov 6 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1106 -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-24.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes hi again :) 02:00am -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (changing servers) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes anyone awake? 03:30am i am 03:40am I was pondering on where help was most needed on the tunes project it seems as if it is "write some code" but I might be wrong writing code would be useful, but the problem is what to write fair enough.. i think it would be some highlevel language code ... at os level there is already retro and flux and eros etc. that can be used there isn't much agreement on what the language should be like, but there are much features everyone thinks it should have commitee work.. 03:50am gakuk -:- binEng [bineng@e161.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes 05:40am -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- binEng [bineng@e161.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp20.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us804.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.245.130.237.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes Hey hoy hi lar1: hows the rev proj coming? hcf: I delayed starting the work until I could talk to Tril again about his format lar1: what format? hcf: He has a 'Tunes" DB which has a certian structure hcf: I assumed he wanted me to make use of it oic Once I grok the DB structure, I will code up the php3 interface, and then enter the data with them Oh, I had an idea for a cool tunes logo.... an IFS of the word TUNES an IFS? Iterated Function System its a type of fractal got any samples? I'll google one up :) what about putting notes (as in a musical score) in the logo? i found a great place for such once a lrage collection of recursive imagery s/lrage/large/ hcf: that was fast... I am still looking! lar1: i said, 'once', i dont have the url within reach atm hcf: Oh... :) I have found some sites, but none of them are the type of function I described 09:30am lar1: http://tqd.advanced.org/3288/ifs.html ? Yes! Thats the site that introduced me to them I belive I saw somwhere ( I thought on that site ) that same concept applied to text -:- lar2 [LarMan@dialup-209.244.105.46.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes maybe you mean the image http://tqd.advanced.org/3288/media/060.gif binEng: Yes My ISP dropped before I could say it -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[dialup-209.245.130.237.SanJose1.Level3.net]) -:- lar2 is now known as lar1 "The beast" was really cool 09:40am So what do you think hcf, fare? irc/1999.0105: I veto any logo before there is working code ANybody that actually know how to draw those? hcf: Retro is code and it works 09:50am the tunes logo should somehow denote the collection of projects Bah! My ssh client won't let me backspace.... hcf: I thought the selfsimilarity of the fractal could represent reflection? thats good too small details in logos aren't good.. that's a disadvantage. binEng: Very true -:- NetSplit: forward.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [09:53am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [forward.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: forward.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-24.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes -:- Zhivago [brian@th.merddin.com.au] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp20.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.244.105.46.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes wb hm, netsplit. But thnx anyway lar1: seen a ourobourus? hcf: Nope lar1: read irc/1999.0621 grep for ouro brb ok * binEng/#tunes is away That grep didn't work well... -i tnx 10:00am Heh, thats cool and funny! lar1: uv seen escher's stuff right? Yah. My dad is a mucho fan we could also use aspects of escher maybe using musical notes and binary data ;) Heh Why do people run win on bochs if it runs soooo slow? 10:10am -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving) back 11:30am -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial846.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes Shalom! -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Read error to Kaufmann[dial846.infolink.com.br]: Connection reset by peer) 12:10pm -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp20.lvdi.net]) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp16.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us804.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us830.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- WarMaster [war@usr27.atil.net] has joined #tunes -:- WarMaster [war@usr27.atil.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial854.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes Shalom! hi What's up? Do you understand Tunes already? not quite.. but I think I get the idea and it is compatible with two of my projects in my vocabulary "understand" is a strong word :) What are your projects? the most compatible one is a distributed reflexive hypermedia-system where everything is easily-programmable objects aaaah in what phase is it? active development after four months of design builds on experience from two other systems I have written commercially Planning to code it on what? it is currently being implemented in CL and an early version was working with CL-HTTP this thursday 04:00pm Nice! hum Gakuk the other project is a development foundation for various programming languages which allows one to easily visualise the code and document it. it's also somewhat lispy, but gives the same reflexive powers in CL to other languages too.. a version sortof works already there too When you say that everything is easily-programmable objects, what exactly do you mean? Is it an actual distributed object protocol/interface, or a separate, specific system /wherein/ distributed objects are supported? I have made a simple object/component language (K14) with a few special constructs for binding with the aspect-code which allows the code to be transformed into real workable code I ask because I'm working on something similar: an Internet Object Protocol which, if it works as intended, will rid me of both CORBA and HTML/HTTP once and for all. the distribution-system is currently pre-alpha and uses CORBA but during testing it worked nicely I need the HTML/HTTP connection but an alternative to CORBA would be great :) CORBA mostly sucks it's useful for interoperation of proprietary software, but that's all CORBA is nice when you don't have time to hack proprietary protocols and when you want to interface with Java The first phase of IOP is basically just a simple, straighforward protocol to allow programmers to manipulate remote objects as if they were local, just like CORBA was supposed to do (only much nicer, faster, cleaner and more flexible) Fufie: if you use Java, why use another language at all? (don't confuse IOP with CORBA's own Internet Inter-ORB Protocol, IIOP) that defeats the purpose of Java! Kauf (I didn't :) and if you use Java, then use Jonathan Fufie, good :) fare: jonathan? abi: Jonathan is at http://www.objectweb.org/ abi: no, Jonathan is a Java ORB at http://www.objectweb.org/ okay, Fare. Kauf: did you read dah28's thesis? fare: and I sortof have to make it possible to use Java because other students will connect to the system with their clients which will be written in Java. Nice GUIs isn't CL's strong side oops, http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/dah28/ doesn't exist anymore. Happily, I mirrored it a few days before it was removed! The second phase is even more ambitious... it involves the definition of a new XML DTD and associated user-level classes (which themselves tap into the IOP) for easy specification and design of mini-application interfaces whose functionality runs on a server. Fare, no XML mostly sucks it's a braindead reinvention of SEX kauf: it seems to me that our projects overlap ;) 04:10pm Fare, I agree, but you can't get much better than it untill you are able to get the world to get rid of their current paradigms altogether and go for something better-designed from the start Fufie, I gues s kauf: one of the neat tricks of K14 (the component language) is that it also generates proper DTDs (XML+SGML) for the structures/objects you make to make entry of data easier and accessible to other systems :) Kauf: SEX has existed for 40 years Fare, I know Fare: XML is a classic Worse is Better approach Fare, have you noticed the resistence to it... since the beginning of time? By SEX I do mean S-expressions, btw by beginning of time I mean the early 60's don't get me wrong K: have you seen how people chose SEX over MEX? Fare, that's only the smart ones :) Seriously, although SEX is a great concept for how programming language syntax should be like, it's hard to indoctrinate people into it, but when they're already indoctrinated there's no going back So if I want to design, for instance, the equivalent of a Web site in IOP, I go and write an object interface in this XML derivative, specifying anything from custom remote method inputs and outputs to the specific widgets (low- as well as high-level; you can define window borders as well as you can just choose from plenty of predefined classes like say, NewsArticle for a NNTP client). Then you just make that definition available in a remote serve someone should mail daveh@persimmon.co.uk about his thesis; I did, with no answer. 04:20pm maybe more people will generate more answer or maybe he's away from the net? kauf: have you started implementing your IOP? (cont'd) with a naming service. So when somebody (e.g.) finds the site in the naming service and accesses it, his browser reads in the XML code and parses it into a OM tree, and displays it as a regular app, except that all the real functionality (except for the UI data) is running in your server Fufie, not quite... I'm still thinking of a format for messages well, I gotta leave now... my email is rnedal@olimpo.com.br, in case somebody cares :) Peace ciao I need sleep have a good night :) -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (out :) -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Doc, note! I dissent! A fast never prevents a fatness - I diet on COD!) what has the XML brought that wasn't already there for the XML to work (8-bit byte communication)? 04:30pm -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us830.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us725.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- yoo [ultima@user-38lc68u.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes Yo! hoy How's it goin? * yoo/#Tunes is incognito ;) whys that? Hmm. No particular reason =) stalker avoidance? ;) Genius. Yes =) How're you doing? fine and yoo? Yoo is just fine =) 06:10pm I need to clean my room. *damn* do I need to clean my room. -:- Weird_Bow [possible@209.3.106.127] has joined #tunes I've got 40-50 soda cans on my floor...and 3/4ths of my wardrobe...about 600 pages of printed documentation...several hundred dollars in textbooks... good day Hi. This is weird For some reason my 'puter things its tomarrow. weeeeeeeeeeeeeee wow since reboot...this irc server has sent over 2 gigs of data woah close to 3 actually (Just a tad of meaningless information) ACL/Windows is awesome bifo its like Visual Basic only Lisp -:- SignOff Weird_Bow: #TUNES (Leaving) Visual Lisp...dialog editor and everything, very OO. Quite amazing. Ironically enough, XBasic, which is supposed to be Visual Basic for Unix, is Prolog =) weird 06:20pm Wow Tulane really ought to review their students web pages I find it somewhat offensive to find a picture of some guys hairy, pimply ass. Hippies Need Not Apply Wow. I've managed to fill the entire window with babble! 06:30pm -:- SignOff yoo: #TUNES (Ping timeout for yoo[user-38lc68u.dialup.mindspring.com]) -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes hmm i received a very disturbing email from beholder here is the site you wanted... http://SEX.Interactwithme.com it's the one that gives you free membership access (all hacked) to abotu 300 membership based sex sites. k bye... 07:00pm abi: plbook is "introduction to programming languages" at http://cs.wwc.edu/~aabyan/221_2/PLBOOK/ 08:20pm -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp040.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Read error to hcf[me-portland-us725.javanet.com]: Connection reset by peer) -:- hcf_ [nef@me-portland-us700.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- hcf_ is now known as hcf -:- ha_shao [No@bbig021092.netvigator.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff ha_shao: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ha_shao[bbig021092.netvigator.com]) -:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?) -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) -:- MethiC [gema@spc-isp-ktc-uas-01-46.sprint.ca] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff MethiC: #TUNES (ircII 2.8.2-EPIC4pre1.001 -- Starting all over again.) [msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.1107 IRC log ended Sun Nov 7 00:00:01 1999