IRC log started Sat May 1 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0501 -:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Tril[sloth.wcug.wwu.edu]) -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES -:- mode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by ChanServ !mccaffrey.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT drexelhill.pa.us.opirc.nu 8005 from lilo -:- teka [jorge@195.77.175.235] has joined #Tunes hola 05:40am -:- teka [jorge@195.77.175.235] has left #Tunes [] -:- smkl [sami@MCCCIII.rdyn.saunalahti.fi] has joined #tunes -:- Iepos [root@d12.t1-7.tecinfo.com] has joined #TUNES -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-125-145.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250104.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes hey Anyone really here? >>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250104.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 925569530 494071 from #tunes 07:40am hello hello. 07:50am >>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250104.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 925570969 604947 from #tunes oops, forgot I was still on here :) time? it has been said that time is 08:05:29 1999 08:10am -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-120-227.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) -:- Winchip [IDT@ppp03-245.algx.iadfw.net] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff Winchip: #TUNES (Read error to Winchip[ppp03-245.algx.iadfw.net]: EOF from client) >>> Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] requested PING 925582616 784685 from #TUNES hi Tril y0 -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250106.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes greetings howdy.. what's going on? * AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations tcn!" :-) topick? 11:20am alonzo, weren't you trying to learn lambda-calculus a while back? yepers... I have been reedin up on Lishp reciently... insteresting lingo... :) i wrote an introduction to it... you can get it at www.tunes.org/~iepos/lambda.html if you want. kool.. I mite take a gander in a few daze... it also covers combinatory logic a little. awesome! :) anyway... oops i forgot just a second it's not there yet :-) -:- HUGO [kikebass@hmo1-60.telmex.net.mx] has joined #Tunes hi Hugo buenas dias hi tril que ondas gotta finish reading the Arrow paper.. I'm on page 5 no hablo espanol bien :) its slo reedin... don't understand much of it... AlonzoTG: me either Okay... I like retro... -:- pasko [pasko@195.235.116.164] has joined #Tunes but I don't really understand it yet... I think kernel protection is a high priority for me... you mean, protection from user programs? I was thinking of instead of using interprited drivers... I mean so drivers don't crash the system... hi, pasko 11:30am -:- pasko [pasko@195.235.116.164] has left #Tunes [] bye :( In my system drivers will be implemented as protocol scripts in a "Device Interface Language" umm, I just posted a message saying I *don't* want kernel modules protected from each other... too slow Or use a trusted compiler to run them... That's a goal of Tunes proof-checking -:- SignOff HUGO: #TUNES (Ping timeout for HUGO[hmo1-60.telmex.net.mx]) like say DEFINE "ReadFloppyDrive" : output x; wait untill Y; Input Z... atg: so your "kernel" will have a compiler/interpreter in it? Then the OS will have a usable interface to the floppy drive that can't cause any problems because everything is safe... It will have an internal interpriter to run device scripts. Externally the compiler will probably be a module inside the persistant storage module... I think you'll find it's a bad idea to have a bunch of special languages not really sure... Hmmz... maybe... look at Unix heeh Anyway... that's what my prototype will find out... In Unix, you have to use shell scripts and crap a lot.. in Tunes you could use a real language like LISP or ML as your "script" language hmmz... -:- Tremebundo [kikebass@hmo1-60.telmex.net.mx] has joined #Tunes hi, Tremebundo -:- SignOff Tremebundo: #TUNES (Leaving) AlonzoTG: http://tunes.org/~tcn/retro/doc/faq.txt that'll clear things up a bit k look at the bottom 11:40am k -:- _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes qz! I heard you were gonna release brix today <_QZ> yup 11:50am <_QZ> a kernel binary, linux source to the utilities to make an ofs image and add objects to it, and the api to write your own methods does it wokr with hard disks yet? is there an interactive interpreter or debugger? <_QZ> Tril: why would i want it to have ide support yet because floppies suck <_QZ> Tril: when it has ide/scsi support i will personally tell u. so u can stop asking me that everyday <_QZ> tcn: i kinda havent been working on brix for the last 2 weeks so i kinda didnt get all that finished are device drivers written with that api? <_QZ> yes so theoretically someone could add ide support :) we might get some synergy between brix/retro/clementine <_QZ> drivers are methods too and they too must use the same api that all other methods use hey, can anyone tell me how to get pine or elm working on my machine? what OS? iepos what distro slackware linux did you install one of them i've tried... but i can't seem to convince it to get the mail from my server, mail.tecinfo.com <_QZ> all u need to do is write a few methods for the ide device and then tell the startup method to add those to the kernel instead of the floppy methods yeah, actually i installed both. does that server have imap? what's an imap? pop3? ummm.... i don't know. just use fetchmail to download your mail to your home system. okay, i've never used that before... let me see... hmmm...... check if you have it installed, then make a .fetchmailrc to tell it how to download mail from your account all right, i'm looking at the man page now. 12:00pm <_QZ> is there an instruction that converts a linear address into a physical address I HATE RC files!!!!!! hmm... i keep getting a "STMP transaction error" lods*? i mean smtp iepos: what mail transport agent (MTA) are you using? sendmail? qz: I don't think so i'm using fetchmail. is that what you're asking? no. fetchmail will get the mail to you. that's for reading your mail. If you get an SMTP error, that is because you are trying to SEND mail. You need a different program to do that.. can you read mail? no. here, this is what i get... iepos:~# fetchmail -u magister mail.tecinfo.com Enter password for magister@mail.tecinfo.com: 19 messages for magister at mail.tecinfo.com (73267 octets). skipping message 1 not flushed reading message 2 of 19 (599 header octets) fetchmail: SMTP connect to localhost failed: Connection refused fetchmail: SMTP transaction error while fetching from mail.tecinfo.com fetchmail: Query status=10 iepos:~# hmm... why is it trying to connect to localhost? qz: nope.. there's no instruction iepos: it's trying to deliver the mail oh i need sendmail or something running? with that setup, yes qz: you can manually walk the page tables (looking at sendmail manpage)... 12:10pm hmm ... it looks like sendmail is only for sending mail. don't i need some sort of daemon running to receive the mail? qz: sendmail does that too err, iepos qz: AND and MOV execute fast, usually 1 cycle.. uh oh. sendmail is complaining about missing configuration file. iepos: sendmail listens on port 25 for incoming SMTP connections, to receive mail meant for your local system. If you're on a PPP connection, no one will probably be able to send mail this way. Fetchmail gets mail from a remote mail server and delivers it to sendmail through the port 25, so it thinks it's coming from a remote system okay... now i just need to get sendmail working. iepos: darn you set a root password <_QZ> i am trying to find a fast solution to this, so "walkingthe page tables" is out or i could have fixed it qz: don't YOU decide what linear address goes to what phyiscal address, since you're the OS designer? And you PUT those in the page tables? <_QZ> i no longer use a direct mapping qz: seen the linux mm ? qz: you just have to use a few ANDs and MOVs.. that's fast. they use some nifty tree for fast lookup ah ha! sendmail -bd uh oh # sendmail No local mailer defined <_QZ> and what i need this for is to copy stack parameters from the current stack to the stack of a new thread, which is not mapped into the current page directory <_QZ> tcn: how so hmm, odd. Slackware usually defines the local mailer as "deliver", and that's included with the sendmail package. iepos: do you even have a /etc/sendmail.cf installed? no :-) iepos: go get one out of /usr/doc/sendmail and copy it there i need debian. it probably sets this all up for me! <_QZ> oops, i asked my question wrong, i meant physical to linear iepos: did you run netconfig? qz: oh, u can't hmmm... i don't think so. maybe that would work <_QZ> er, wait now im confused iepos: it asks you your hostname, and which sendmail cf you want <_QZ> i dont know what i need :) qz: well it would be slow qz what are you trying to do? yes... i've used it before... forgot to run it again last time i reinstalled 12:20pm it should run automatically in the configure stage if you installed sendmail THIS is why I don't use LiNuKs :P atg: which distro did you try? Tril: he tried the crappy one :) (the one that makes linux look bad) <_QZ> heh slackware's not crappy, it is meant to teach you how to configure linux :) the hard way <_QZ> haha redhat is meant for newbies who don't care how to configure linux. and if you try you're screwed he told me he tried redhat 554 No local mailer defined <_QZ> doesnt matter what u say about redhat, its still #1 I tried redhat once too, then I went right back to slackware, and finally debian this year <_QZ> and redhat is still the ONLY distro that has investments by the corporate world if the corporate world gave money to debian it would be a donation not an investment hmm, any idea how to "define the local mailer"? what's eggdrop? eggdrop is uncomprehensible iepos: there is a line in sendmail.cf starting with "Mlocal" uh oh... netconfig didn't do anything to sendmail.cf abi, eggdrop is also an irc bot okay, Tril. so, no. iepos, there's another config for sendmail.. really, what is it? /var/adm/setup/setup.sendmail joy, it works ! i have all these messages popping up it all my terminals and annoying beeping sounds! thank you so much, tril put "biff n" in your login script or delete biff Iepos: now learn to stop using root all the time kill comsat well, if i stop being root all the time, then i'll always have to su 12:30pm just leave a terminal logged in as root X is a pain though.. if you su root in an xterm, it won't let you run X programs unless you do a bunch of complicated crap :) i agree it would be nice to have another user for when I telnet in remotely (which i almost never do). (say, anyone know how to do it?) tcn probably need to add root to the user's xauth hey, that reminds me, i've never gotten remote X programs to work. i always get "connection refused". I guess my local x server doesn't trust the incoming connection Tril: See, that's the problem w/ X, it's too damn hard to manage :) hmm, i guess xauth is probably the solution ... on the box you want the window to popup, type xhost +host.name ahhhhh! on the host.name box, in bash type "export DISPLAY=host2.name:0.0" yes, i'd gotten the DISPLAY set okay, but it should work now with xhost hmmm, by the way, do you know of any good xservers that run on top of windoze? cygnus X-Win32 is installed at my uni.. works fine hmmm ... i'm going to have to check that out i gotta go later thanx, Tril. -:- SignOff Iepos: #TUNES (Leaving) 4 pages left... gasp... wow Well I gotta get something done today see ya ok phew lunch * Tril/#TUNES is away: (afk) [BX-MsgLog Off] 12:40pm -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[client-151-200-120-227.bellatlantic.net]) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-125-105.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes :/ my 'puter shorted out. :(((( <_QZ> HAHAHA 01:10pm sekund time zat happened.. ;((( hey, when your computer is 4 years old; we'll see who's lauhging!!!! 01:20pm -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- NetSplit: clarke.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [01:40pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [clarke.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: clarke.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES -:- mode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by ChanServ -:- abi [nef@bespin.cx] has joined #Tunes -:- Tril has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: http://tunes.org -:- ChanServ has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: http://www.tunes.org - Free Reflective Computing System >>> Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] requested PING 925599310 605821 from #TUNES -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (sleeping ...) -:- Iepos [root@d2.t1-4.tecinfo.com] has joined #TUNES yo yo hey, i still can't send mail receiving seems to work pretty much okay, though. I get an error "cannot find /usr/bin/uux: no such file or directory" you probably set up sendmail to use the UUCP config. Use SMTP instead. hmmm... 04:20pm maybe some option in sendmail.cf ... then again, maybe i need to run setup.sendmail again. it was from the setup.sendmail. don't choose the uucp option. oops -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250122.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Iepos: #TUNES (Leaving) tcn 04:30pm hey hello, tcn -:- Iepos [root@d6.t1-4.tecinfo.com] has joined #TUNES Tril, still there? ya tril, I don't see the problem with your object ID's in your typesystem.. there's one small problem. I don't always have the same hostname... because i dialup to my ISP. does that mean i do need UUCP after all? no, I have dynamic IP too hmm, well every time i send a message, i get an error: "sender domain must exist" it actually changes /etc/HOSTNAME? in pine set the sender-domain to some valid domain. but the user you run pine as, must be the username at the domain you give. oh, it doesn't what domain? so if you want to send mail to appear from iepos@tunes.org, make an account iepos on your box and set his .pinerc to say the user-domain is tunes.org. Then all mail will say From: iepos@tunes.org. Make sure you test it out real good. Make sure a message sent to "root@localhost" or just "root" goes to your machine, not your ISP i never had that happen with slackare hmm, but i do need reply messages to go to my ISP... I did when I switch mailhandler's :) then I got debian iepos: I don't understand what you just said what's a reply message? me neither :-) well i don't want people to reply to iepos@tunes.org because i don't have an email account there. i want them to reply to my ISP. i was just gonna say.. i created iepos@tunes.org, I guess because I forgot to earlier. what is your username at the ISP? "magister" @tecinfo.com you're on the member list at tunes so you get an email there oh... actually i'll probably just start using iepos@tunes.org make an account "magister" and set the user-domain in pine to tecinfo.com then. all right i get the idea, let me try... that's kind of annoying. that means i can't be root all the time! hmm , is there some way to trick pine? no, it's GOOD, you shouldn't be root all the time. heh heh all right okay let me make a new account and fix all my file permissions yeah, if you make a mistake as root, you can screw your whole hard drive 04:40pm or if you ran a trojan horse or virus (which are rare in Unix, but definately possible...) how do I make programs dump core go figure still, trojan horses can still do big-time damage. they can still wipe out all your user files, although maybe not your whole system if you're not root. I used to use trojans to trick administrators into giving me their pw :) but that's only an issue on servers * Tril/#TUNES cds to tcn's directory and types login or su or telnet :) If you take '.' out of your path, you won't run any trojans i guess I dont have . in my path debian leaves it out by default anyone know how to use gpg nope gpg: Warning: using insecure memory! uh oh, now it wants "metamail" what is metamail? stuff for file attachments mime aack... so why is sendmail looking for it? 04:50pm because it should be installed hmm... but it's not... let me see if i can find it Hey, there was a CERT advisory for metamail: A sender of a MIME encoded mail message can cause the receiver to execute an arbitrary command. If the attacker has an account on the ... fixed I hope :) the latest sendmail doesnt have that okay i have metamail, but now it says "relaying denied". good. what is relaying? spammers use it okay does that mean i'm a spammer ? :-) relaying means sendmail will process mail destined for a non-local domain and will send it yeah.. spammers use it to try to be anonymous umm, but i do need to be able to send mail to non-local domains. it should let local domains send to non-local domains just a minute i got mail from you really? why is your hostname iepos.tecinfo.com? is that right? maybe if you update the IP in /etc/hosts every time you connect, it will fix sendmail hmmm this is really confusing me :-) i guess my hostname should be iepos.tunes.org if i am getting mail from tunes.org ? no it doesn't matter whta your hostname is no one on the internet will see it unless they look at all the mail headers 05:00pm man, I've been making all kinds of stupid mistakes.. stosb instead of movsb! oops iepos:what's in /etc/hosts? let me see 127.0.0.1 localhost 127.0.0.1 iepos iepos.tunes.org hmmm, i can send mail to tunes.org but nowhere else. now you must have set the domain of your machine to tunes.org. don't do that. make up a domain name that doesn't exist for your machine okay hmm wait this is getting me confused. never mind do you care if you have to be online in order to send mail? not really well, why not just tell pine to use your isp's smtp server for sending then your local one doesn't have to work umm ... i guess i'll try that hey, what's the command to send all queued mail immediately? send a SIGHUP to the daemon joy, i think it works. it will restart and process the queue killall -HUP sendmail I should put that in my ppp-on i set my sendmail to queue all mail, and i dont run the daemon except when i'm connected. and when it's online it uses a queue time of like 1 min i think everything works now. but i still have use "fetchmail" to get my mail. is there a way to make pine do this? iepos try this, in pine hit G, then type {mail.tecinfo.com}iepos and hit enter 05:10pm what's that? if it works it will ask for a username and password, if it doesn't, it will wait a while and have a connection error it umm sort of works thats the syntax for pine to use remote IMAP folders it asks for username and password but then says "can't find folder ..." try "{mail.tecinfo.com}INBOX" or inbox lowercase both should work yes that works, but it asks for my username and password twice wait but that doesn't download the messages to my machine. correct. you can set that to be your inbox, then you won't even have to download them to your machine. i mean your default inbox when you run pine hmmmmm i use fetchmail with procmail for a delivery agent because I sort my mail into folders plus reading mail remotely is slower okay, it works for {tunes.org}inbox too. you can obviously use the Save command to move messages between mailboxes i prefer using .forward to do that though hey, anybody can unsubscribe anybody. if they use the web form, yeah heh heh Not like it matters didn't it send you a note that said you got unsubscribed? then you can just resubscribe yourself It's better than giving you a password for every mailing-list 05:20pm yes it did give a note. i guess it's not a real problem. if someone unsubscribes you, you could just resubscribe again. you can always check the archives for anything you missed ah the manpage for gpg says the insecure memory warning is because I didnt setuid the file yet. debian has this paranoid system for tracking all setuid programs. if you don't register a program with it, it seeks out and unsetuids anything it doesnt recognize tril, is there someone to tell pine to automatically enter my username and password? i have no idea okay, i'll just type it in every time... fetchmail does it automatically and it can do both tunes.org and your ISP go find pine.doc on www.cac.washington.edu/pine actually ... i think i'm getting kinda tired of playing with my email account :-) 05:30pm tril, you familiar with 386 multitasking (at a low level)? ... i read the 386 programmer's reference several times i'm pretty familiar ok, I'll ask you if I need another brain :) (I bought that book beacuse it was the only book I could find with complete opcodes. ASM books without opcodes are useless, how are you supposed to write your own assembler?) EVERY ONE of the books on C=64 asm had all the opcodes in it.. Intel's 386 manual seems better than 3rd-party manuals much more direct What cpu did the c64 use? 6510, of the 6502 family did the c128 use something newer? the 8-bit NES and apple ][ also used 6502s not sure the 64 was pretty cool, for its time had nice sound & graphics /who #tunes 05:40pm allright, how to do the initial task switch.. -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) oh wow. PINE starts for "Program for Internet News and Email" i always thought it stood for "PINE Is Not ELM" they changed it really, why? hey did that beep work?