IRC log started Mon Mar  1 00:10:52 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0301
ωνω SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
ωνω SignOff yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
ωνω NetSplit: zsoldos.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [05:54am]
ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [zsoldos.openprojects.net]
ωνω Netjoined: zsoldos.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net
ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes
ωνω yery [ost@194.85.82.41] has joined #TUNES
<yery> hello
07:30am
ωνω SignOff yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for yery[194.85.82.41])
!koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT norton.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
!hogan.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT gibson.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
ωνω yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #TUNES
ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[esmeralda.enst.fr])
ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes
!hogan.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT gibson.openprojects.net 8004 from lilo
ωνω NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from forward.openprojects.net [11:10am]
ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net]
ωνω Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net forward.openprojects.net
ωνω yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #Tunes
ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes
!koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT carter.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
ωνω Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES
!koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT carter.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
!asimov.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT carter.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
!norton.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT carter.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
ωνω NetSplit: king.openprojects.net split from koontz.openprojects.net [01:34pm]
ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [king.openprojects.net]
ωνω Netjoined: king.openprojects.net koontz.openprojects.net
ωνω Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes
ωνω Kelp [kelp@feynman.physics.wwu.EDU] has joined #Tunes
<Tril> the EU has a capitol?
01:40pm
<Kelp> yeah
<Kelp> I just forgot the name of the city
<Kelp> and its pissing me off
<Kelp> its Strausburg
<Kelp> Strasbourg
<Kelp> actualy
ωνω Kelp is now known as KeLp_
ωνω KeLp [kelp@xws084.xtrn03.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes
π KeLp_/#tunes is away: (doing stuff) [BX-MsgLog On]
01:50pm
π Fare/#Tunes is back for a minute or so
<Tril> I gotta go. catch ya later Fare
π Tril/#TUNES  is away: (afk) [BX-MsgLog Off]
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason)
02:10pm
<KeLp> fare still awake?
02:20pm
!hogan.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT gibson.openprojects.net 8004 from lilo
!koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT carter.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
ωνω KeLp__ [kelp@xws075.xtrn03.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes
ωνω SignOff KeLp: #TUNES (Read error to KeLp[xws084.xtrn03.wwu.edu]: No route to host)
ωνω KeLp__ is now known as KeLp
ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
π _QZ/#tunes is GONE ( out to dinner )
!koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT vinge.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
!koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT carter.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
!doogie:*! I would like to personally congratulate debian on the release of 2.1, codenamed slink.  It has, or will be shortly, mirrored to the vast debian mirror network.  If you would like to come join the post-release 'party,' please come to #debian.  We currently have 169 people in the channel.
-lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Please join me in congratulating Debian GNU/Linux on behalf of Open Projects Net, on their 'Slink' release!  Visit them on their home channel, #debian!
ωνω LaGgEr [x@pool039-max5.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net] has joined #Tunes
ωνω LaGgEr [x@pool039-max5.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net] has left #Tunes []
ωνω lar1 [larman@208.254.224.122] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Hi!
<KeLp> hey
05:30pm
ωνω ^lilo [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has joined #tunes
ωνω ^lilo has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Computing freedom!  TUNES OS project, http://tunes.org/
π ^lilo/#tunes bows
ωνω ^lilo [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has left #tunes []
ωνω Loki [loki@godai.maison-otaku.net] has joined #Tunes
π Loki/#Tunes waves.
<Loki> Ok, I'll bite.  What's Tunes/why's it unique as an OS?  Since the website doesn't make that too clear. :)
ωνω GMOL [gmol@24.66.11.51] has joined #tunes
<KeLp> well I dont' think any code for it exists :)
<KeLp> but maybe fare or some one can really answer
<KeLp> I have no affiliation with tunes
06:20pm
ωνω SignOff GMOL: #TUNES (Leaving)
π Loki/#Tunes laughs.  "Having no code exist hardly makes it a unique OS." :)
ωνω SignOff KeLp: #TUNES (really writing this paper now)
ωνω SignOff Loki: #TUNES (Leaving)
ωνω SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
ωνω TornSyrup [flop@ppp137223.netaccess.co.nz] has joined #tunes
ωνω TornSyrup [flop@ppp137223.netaccess.co.nz] has left #tunes [Everyone's]
ωνω SignOff KeLp_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for KeLp_[feynman.physics.wwu.EDU])
ωνω KeLp_ [kelp@feynman.physics.wwu.EDU] has joined #tunes
ωνω lar1 [larman@208.254.224.110] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Hi
<_QZ> hola
<_QZ> u shoulda been here tonight
<_QZ> my friend and i went around to all the computer places in town just browsing
<lar1> Ok...
<_QZ> and we were at compusa and he fucked over all their machines
<lar1> Hehe
<_QZ> he set them all to high contrast color scheme
<_QZ> and then tweaked the colors a bit more, put them in 640x480 and added a billion icons to the desktop
<_QZ> they looked like shit
<lar1> :)
<lar1> Were they PIIIs?
<_QZ> some were
<lar1> Cool... good work ;)
<lar1> Ummm, when implementing a modular OS format... like the sound drivers, modem drivers, etc.  What is the best way to put them?  Like an INT or linked w/ the binarys??
<_QZ> eh?
<_QZ> u want to make drivers that use ints?
<lar1> If I have soundcard services... what is the best way to serve them to my binarys?
<_QZ> u want to know how the user level apps will call sound servces?
<lar1> Yes
<_QZ> well in brix everything is down with message passing
<lar1> How does that work?
<_QZ> so the user app sends a message to the sound object
<_QZ> and the kernel creates a thread for the sound message in the sound object space
<lar1> What is defined as an object?
<_QZ> that thread will verify if the user app can call that message and if the sound object is currently busy, inwhich case it can wait on a semaphore 
<_QZ> the data part of the driver
09:20pm
<_QZ> the sound object would contain the irqs, dma, io etc that the admin has configured the card for
<_QZ> along with any other info like default volume levels etc
<_QZ> the object gets its own memory space
<lar1> Uh oh... threads... I knew I would run into these sooner or later... how do thoes work?
<_QZ> and messages sent to it get threaded inside that space
<_QZ> they are just processes
<lar1> How do I multitask in Pmode?
<_QZ> timer
<lar1> ?
<_QZ> u setup the timer to interrupt at whatever interval u want
<_QZ> the timer will then call the code attached to the int
<_QZ> the scheduler
<_QZ> it saves the current thread's cpu state and loads the next thread
<lar1> What if the thread is in the middle of a time critical thing?
<lar1> Like communticating with an prihiperial
<_QZ> and if u use non-segmented memory then u can speed it up cuz u dont have to save any of the segment registers
<_QZ> uhh
<lar1> Like if a thread gets input and needs to do immeatite output, but the secheduler decides it is the next threads turn...
<_QZ> i have timer events that allow messages to be sent or to unblock threads 
<lar1> So the scheduler knows if for some reason a thread needs more cycles?
<_QZ> give an example
<_QZ> no thread gets more time
<lar1> Like if you are doing data accusition... there is costant data going in... what if the thread needs to recive the data, and send some data to the card?
<lar1> But thread reallyfungame would like to have a chat with the VGA controler
09:30pm
<_QZ> is this input attached to an int or must the cpu constantly poll for input
<lar1> int
<_QZ> ints are all events
<lar1> So if an int happens.. will the scheduler stop the currnet thread and service the int?
<_QZ> so drivers must either block threads on events or have the event message it
<_QZ> when the int triggers the scheduler will immediately save the current thread and execute the event 
<lar1> And saving the thread involve saving the stack, and all of the registers?
<_QZ> actually the event is a stack of events and it pops all the events off and puts them in the thread list
<_QZ> so u can have several things executed when an int triggers
<lar1> What?
<_QZ> irq sharing
<_QZ> if 2 devices share the same irq 
<lar1> That can happen?
<_QZ> they will both wait on the same event and both get run when it triggers
<_QZ> then they can each test their device to see if it was the one
<lar1> Ok
<_QZ> dolphin is the only other os that can do that i believe
<lar1> BRiX does it?
<_QZ> yes
<lar1> To save a thread I just save the stack and the registers, right?
<_QZ> i push ds/eax, test to see if a thread is waiting to run, if not then i pop ds/eax and return to the thread that was just running.
<_QZ> if a thread is waiting then i move cr3 to eax and pushad to save all the registers
<_QZ> all the GP regs that is
<_QZ> then i save the fpu regs if the thread used the fpu
<lar1> GP regs? cr3 I have only worked with cr0... fpu?  I have never done that either...
<_QZ> then i find the next thread to run and load its fpu regs if it uses them
<_QZ> GP = general purpose
<_QZ> eax/ebx/ecx/edx/esi/edi/ebp/esp
<lar1> Ohhh, ok
<lar1> How many cr regs are there?
<_QZ> 4 
<_QZ> cr3 is for paging
<_QZ> cr3 = page directory pointer
<lar1> What does cr1 and cr2 do?
<_QZ> dunno, would have to look it up
09:40pm
<lar1> Ok, but I still save them?
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> the app cant change them
<_QZ> assuming yer apps run in ring 3
<_QZ> all apps/drivers in brix are ring 3
<_QZ> the kernel is ring 0
<_QZ> i dont use rings 1 and 2
<lar1> Ring?
<lar1> Is that the P flag?
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> u dont know what a ring level is ?
<lar1> No, not really
<_QZ> hold on
<lar1> k
<_QZ> do u have the pentium developers manual: vol 3?
<lar1> no
<_QZ> do u have any intel developer cds?
<_QZ> they are free u know?
<lar1> I have that 3 cd thing... the mirror of their www site
<_QZ> ok
<_QZ> the pent dev man is on htere
<lar1> ok vol 3... I'll take a look
<_QZ> its a pdf file
<lar1> I am sure I'll be back with many questions ;)
<_QZ> u seriously need to read it
<lar1> just vol 3 or the whole thing?
<_QZ> ring levels have permissions
<_QZ> ring 0 can run any instruction and access any io
<_QZ> just vol 3
09:50pm
<_QZ> and smp info is in the pentium pro dev man: vol 3
ωνω Kor [kor@pm-ppp8.triton.net] has joined #tunes
<_QZ> segments have ring perms and u must have that perm or higher to access it (0 is higher than 3)
ωνω NetSplit: koontz.openprojects.net split from forward.openprojects.net [09:52pm]
ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [koontz.openprojects.net]
ωνω Netjoined: koontz.openprojects.net forward.openprojects.net
ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes
ωνω yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #Tunes
ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #Tunes
ωνω KeLp_ [kelp@feynman.physics.wwu.EDU] has joined #Tunes
ωνω lar_BRB [larman@208.254.224.110] has joined #Tunes
ωνω Kor [kor@pm-ppp8.triton.net] has joined #Tunes
ωνω dino [dino@pm-ppp13.triton.net] has joined #tunes
ωνω lar_BRB is now known as lar1
<lar1> Sorry, false alarm
<_QZ> btw, if u use threads then check to see if the memory space u are switching to is the same as the one u are switching from
<lar1> Prroducts and product selector, technoligys,  or tools and motherboards?
<_QZ> so if u are stopping thread A and starting thread B and both thread A and B are being run in the same memory space then DONT relaod cr3
10:00pm
<lar1> I thought that Pmode has a flay memory layout...
<_QZ> reloading cr3 flushes the cache
<lar1> What CD: Products and product selector, technoligys,  or tools and motherboards?
<_QZ> i think its products
<_QZ> maybe tech
<lar1> ok
10:10pm
ωνω SignOff KeLp_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for KeLp_[feynman.physics.wwu.EDU])
<_QZ> i use 6 segments: dummy, CS(0) 4gig, DS(0) 4gig, TSS, CS(3) 4gig, and DS(3) 4gig
<_QZ> the kernel uses the CS/DS(0) and apps use the CS/DS(3)
<lar1> Ohhhh, ok I get it
<_QZ> TSS is only used to store the iobitmap length
<_QZ> er pointer
<lar1> Is that that P flag?
<_QZ> each driver object (memory space) has an iobitmap table if it has registered any io 
<_QZ> i just page map that iobitmap table right after the TSS
ωνω Kelp [kelp@feynman.physics.wwu.EDU] has joined #tunes
<_QZ> i placed the 104 byte TSS at the END of a 4k page that way the iobitmap can be mapped into the 2 pages after it
<_QZ> what P flag are u talking about
<lar1> I don't rembeber exactly... there is some 
<lar1> P flag in Pmode
<lar1> I think for the segments?
<_QZ> there is a P flag for pages
<_QZ> P = present
<_QZ> ya segments have P(present) flags too
<lar1> p for privledge... where do you set what ring a segment it in?  The GDT?
<_QZ> no P is not for priviledge
<lar1> hmmm
10:20pm
<_QZ> to set segment ring level u set the 2bit DPL in the segment descriptor
<_QZ> Descriptor Priviledge Level
<_QZ> the Current Priviledge Level comes from the DPl of the current CS register
<lar1> Uh oh... just when I thought I understoo pmode...
<_QZ> so the DPL of the segment containing the code being run is the CPL
ωνω SignOff Kelp: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Kelp[feynman.physics.wwu.EDU])
<_QZ> IOPL (I/O Priviledge Level) is the CPL that must be exceded to use io instructions
<lar1> CPL?
<_QZ> IOPl is in the eflags regiters
<_QZ> register
<_QZ> CPL = Current Priviledge Level
<_QZ> DPL = Descriptor Priviledge Level
<_QZ> IOPL = I/O Priviledge Level
<lar1> ok
<_QZ> RPL = Requester Priviledge Level
<_QZ> RPl is in a selector
ωνω SignOff Kor: #TUNES ()
<lar1> Must I use rings?... this is the mosts complicated topic I've run into...
<_QZ> use 2 rings: 0 and 3
<_QZ> set iopl to 0
<_QZ> and use iobitmap tables in any app that u want to access io ports
<_QZ> and use paging for memory protection
ωνω Kelp [kelp@feynman.physics.wwu.EDU] has joined #tunes
<lar1> ok
<_QZ> paging is ez
<lar1> Is everything ez?
<_QZ> u just create a list of memory that each app can use
<_QZ> then u load that list into cr3 each time u run a thread inside that app
<lar1> Selectors, right?
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> selectors are the 16bit value that u laod into segment registers
<_QZ> u will only need 6 selectors
<_QZ> u load the TSS selector only once
<lar1> hmmm must I page?
<_QZ> the dummy selector is never used
<_QZ> but required
<_QZ> and u load the ring 0 CS/DS for all kernel functions and ring 3 CS/DS for all apps
<_QZ> if u want protected memory then use paging
<_QZ> using segments for protected memory is harder
<lar1> So paging allocates memory to everything?
<_QZ> other cpus dont have segments and u wont be able to port yer OS
<lar1> Is porting important?
<_QZ> paging breaks up memory into 4k pages
<_QZ> and u tell each app what pages they can access
<_QZ> u can even move memory around
<lar1> ok... that I think I can do
ωνω SignOff Kelp: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Kelp[feynman.physics.wwu.EDU])
<_QZ> so u can tell the app it can access the 1meg-2meg region of memory but its really accessing the 10meg-11meg region
10:30pm
<lar1> Why does it matter?
<_QZ> get a pen/pencil and paper
ωνω KeLp_ [kelp@feynman.physics.wwu.EDU] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Why not tell it it is in 10mb -11mb region?
<_QZ> draw a blcok on the left middle side and call it the pgdir (page directory)
<lar1> ok
<_QZ> that has 1024 entries
<_QZ> each a 4 byte pointer
<_QZ> the bottom 10bits of each pointer are flags
<_QZ> each of those pointers points to a page table
<_QZ> there can be 1024 page tables in an app
<_QZ> each page table has 1024 entries
<_QZ> each a byte pointer to a page
<_QZ> and the bottom 10bits are flags
<lar1> I am lost
<lar1> Totally
<_QZ> draw a box in the middle of the paper
<lar1> ok
<_QZ> hold on
<lar1> ok
<_QZ> ok u can wakeup now
<lar1> Sorry...
10:40pm
<lar1> Ok so... I think I get it...
<_QZ> there are two ways to use paging in an OS: the easy way to write (harder on apps) or the hard way to write (easy way on apps)
<_QZ> brix uses the first method
<_QZ> the logical page address matches the physical address
10:50pm
<_QZ> but i must tell each app where its data is
<_QZ> the second method puts all apps at a base like 1gig
<_QZ> so each app is has its code at 1gig logically
<_QZ> and its data could be at 2gig
<_QZ> u still here?
<lar1> yah
<_QZ> u understand?
<lar1> Kinda
<lar1> I'll sleep on it
<_QZ> heh
<lar1> My mind is a little hazy... I haven't got much sleep lately
<_QZ> neither have i
<lar1> :)
<lar1> We are in the same boat!
<_QZ> that is why brix hasnt progressed in the last few weeks :)
<lar1> Hehe
<_QZ> oh u also need to set the kernel stack for each thread in the TSS
<lar1> Ok
<_QZ> cuz when u go from ring 3 to ring 0 it changes stacks
<_QZ> so each thread needs to stacks
<lar1> I still say this stuff is not ez
<_QZ> hehe
<_QZ> sure it is
<lar1> Is there anything to you that is not 'ez'?
<_QZ> no
11:00pm
<_QZ> oh man 
<lar1> Wha?
<_QZ> there was this guy at compusa today
<_QZ> he had a freakin cell fone with one of those headsets
<_QZ> he was wearing it in the store
<lar1> LOL
<_QZ> and he called sum1 on it
<_QZ> and was gabbin away with them 
<lar1> Hehe
<_QZ> we were laughing so hard hard at him cuz he looked like a moron
<_QZ> so i dared my friend to walk up to him and ask if he worked there
<_QZ> even tho we knew he didnt
<lar1> I could just see this
<_QZ> he walked up behind the guy and rasied his hand to tap him on the shoulder so he would turn around
<_QZ> and he kinda stopped short and then pulled his hand away
<_QZ> then tried again, stopped and then again
<lar1> Why?
<_QZ> he couldnt bring himself to do it cuz he was laughing so hard
<lar1> Oh... hehe
<_QZ> it was so funny to watch
<lar1> u guys had 2 much fun
<_QZ> im gonna have to get one of those headsets for my cell fone
<_QZ> and wear it everywhere
<lar1> Hrmmmmm
<lar1> Have you ever OCed?
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> im the OC king
<_QZ> i have 3 celeron 300A's running at 463mhz
<lar1> Have you ever SMPed?
<_QZ> my p75 is at 90
<lar1> the celerys
<_QZ> my p233mmz is at 262
<_QZ> my k6-166 is at 200
<_QZ> i have a dual p2 board but have not yet smp'd the celeries
<_QZ> i need to go buy a 0.5mm bit
<lar1> AHHHHHHH
<lar1> I don't want to drill!
<_QZ> i have a hand drill but no bits small enuf
<_QZ> and dont use a power drill
<lar1> Hehe
<_QZ> hand drill u cant screw up with
11:10pm
<lar1> Trust me... If I drill, I'll screw it
<_QZ> do u have a dual board?
<lar1> No
<lar1> I don't have any of this yet...
<_QZ> ah
<_QZ> i bought the asus p2b-d for $274 from techstore.com
<lar1> My birthday present to myself will be 2 Celerys at 450 each
<_QZ> quite pricey
<_QZ> 450? do 463
<lar1> Why?
<_QZ> its faster
<_QZ> only lusers do 450
<lar1> Does it make a difference 450 -> 463?
<_QZ> 463 is the 100mhz bus with turbo
<_QZ> 103mhz bus
<lar1> Ok
<_QZ> memory and agp get faster
<_QZ> along with L2/L1 cache and ofcourse the cpu
<lar1> Is firewire out?
<_QZ> uh ya
<lar1> Is it on these MBs?
<_QZ> uh no
<_QZ> its has been out as a card for a long time tho
<lar1> Does anything use it?
<_QZ> not really
<lar1> So I should stick w/ usb?
<_QZ> ya
<lar1> Should I go for a serial mouse or usb?
<_QZ> what kinda mouse u want
<lar1> A three button
<_QZ> el cheapo or a really nice logitech mouse :)
<_QZ> i paid $150 for my logitech :)
<lar1> Crap!  Why?
<_QZ> RF mouse
<lar1> Ohhhh
<_QZ> they are down to like $70 now
<lar1> El cheapo works for now... I can't justify spending more for a mouse then the cpu its self...
<_QZ> hahaha
<lar1> I am on a budget here...
<_QZ> well the usb will cost like twice what a serial will
<lar1> Where should I look for this stuff CPU/MB?
<lar1> Is it any better?
11:20pm
<_QZ> no
<lar1> Where do you get yout celerys?
<_QZ> lsmicro.com
<_QZ> this chick that works that got royally screwed
<lar1> Should I get a 300a a 333 or a 366?
<lar1> How so?
<_QZ> she was showin us her new car she just got
<lar1> ya
<_QZ> its a nissan 200sx
<_QZ> '97
<_QZ> 14,000 miles
<lar1> No idea
<_QZ> previous owner had a dog and the car was full of dog hair and she is allergic to dogs
<_QZ> she is paying $349/mo
<lar1> HAHAHA
<_QZ> after she bought the car they had some guy clean it at the place
<lar1> So its ok now?
<_QZ> he climbed out of the car with a coke in his hand as she was going to get it and he had spilled coke all over inside
<lar1> Hehe
<lar1> This has not been her day
<_QZ> they saw her combing and fucked her over
<_QZ> comming
<lar1> Can I put a celery in a PII board?
<_QZ> uhh ya
<lar1> Thats wut I thougt
<_QZ> u might have to flash upgrade it
<lar1> Ugh
<lar1> That I don't want to do
<_QZ> my asus p2b worked with the celery 266 but i had to flash it to use the 300A
11:30pm
<_QZ> my p2b-d was already flashed
<_QZ> flashing is ez
<lar1> I know it is ahem... "ez" but you need a cpu to do it...
<_QZ> u download the 262k flash file, enable bios update in the bios and then run the flash program that comes with the MB
<lar1> You need a cpu other then the one you are going to OC to do that
<_QZ> oh ya
<lar1> I don't want to buy 3 cpus
<_QZ> unless u buy old stock the MB will be flashed already
<lar1> Should I get an Intel? Or can I get el chepo does everything $55?
<_QZ> if u buy the asus p2b-d ask them if it has version 1006
<_QZ> intel what?
<lar1> MB
<_QZ> u want dual?
<lar1> yup
<_QZ> dual MB for $55??? HAHAHAHA
<lar1> oh... hey... that is in the wrong catagory... nevermind
<_QZ> pc chips?
<lar1> $65 then
<lar1> Yah
<_QZ> hehe
<_QZ> 65?
<lar1> ya for an intel
<_QZ> i dont think so
<lar1> Right off price watch
<_QZ> ya if ya wanna use 2 pentium pros
<lar1> Thats the prob
<_QZ> ther is an intel dual p2 with LX for $89
<lar1> LX?
<_QZ> FX,LX,BX,EX
<_QZ> EX is below BX but it came out after BX
<_QZ> EX is for cheap celeron boards and only supports 66mhz bus
<lar1> So LX is better then BX?
11:40pm
<_QZ> FX is the pentium pro chipset but intel used it on the first p2 boards cuz LX was nt ready yet
<_QZ> BX is the top of the line p2 chipset
<_QZ> BX supports 100mhz bus
<_QZ> LX dont
<lar1> Crap!
<_QZ> "dual pentium II BX motherboard"
<_QZ> search for that 
<lar1> k
<_QZ> cept filter out those damn boards that say "dual at/atx" :)
<_QZ> s/filter/mentally filter/
<lar1> that was the $55 one..hehe
<lar1> $175
<_QZ> now u see that dual boards start at $165
<lar1> ya
<lar1> How can I tell if they have been flashed?
<_QZ> tekram never heard of them, dont buy it
<lar1> asus starts at $268!
<_QZ> ya but asus is the BEST
<_QZ> u wont find a better board
<lar1> Even an Intel?
<_QZ> yup
<_QZ> the only area where asus fails is the lack of a softbios
<lar1> But 286+70+70+case+moniter+vidcard+HD+SCSI contoler+HD = Way too much $$
<_QZ> but i hate sottbios so it wins in every area for me
<lar1> softbios?
<_QZ> softbios = jumperless board
<lar1> Hmm
<_QZ> instead of setting jumpers for bus speed and cpu multiplier u pick them from the bios
<lar1> I don't like softbios then
<lar1> I want a manly board... softbios is not manly
<_QZ> oh and asus has big caps behind the cpus so the celery sandwhich wont work in them
<lar1> celery sandwhich?
<_QZ> but celery sandwhich is $65 + s/h
<_QZ> front and back heatsink with 2 fans on each
<_QZ> keeps the celery extra kewl
<lar1> I want a peliter cooler
<_QZ> computer geeks sells em
<lar1> with a big sink and fan
<_QZ> i made some celery snadwhichs for $8
<lar1> Whats VRM?
<_QZ> in relation to what?
<lar1> PPro
<_QZ> uhh
<lar1> I only see "FREE VRM" on those boards
11:50pm
ωνω SignOff dino: #TUNES (Ping timeout for dino[pm-ppp13.triton.net])
<_QZ> voltage regulator module
<lar1> ohhh
<lar1> How much VRAM do I need?
<_QZ> what do u wanna do?
<lar1> Whip fat quake II ass!!!
<lar1> 3D3D3D3D!
<_QZ> are u gonna be using linux on this machine?
<lar1> Yes
<lar1> Dual boot
<_QZ> u do know that dos and win9x dont support smp?
<lar1> Yes
<_QZ> well i use 4meg on all my vid cards
<lar1> How much 3d gaming do you do?
<_QZ> this machine is at 1600x1200 16bit color which leaves 346k for scratch memory
<_QZ> i dont play games on this machine
<_QZ> i have a win98 machine behind me that i play games on
<lar1> Ah!  No games!  How can you live?
<_QZ> u got halflife?
π lar1/#tunes begins to wonder if SMP is truly nesscery...
<lar1> no
<_QZ> how can u live without halflife????????
<lar1> Money going to puter to play halflife...
<lar1> I need $$
<_QZ> and u need to put NT4 on yer smp box so u can play halflife
<_QZ> :)
<lar1> how does $20 for 
<lar1>         AGP 4M S3
<lar1>         TRIO video card
<lar1> sound?
<_QZ> i only use SB
<_QZ> awe32 in this box, awe64 in the game box
<lar1> Thats like another 100
<_QZ> uhh no
<_QZ> awe64 is cheap
<lar1> how cheap?
<_QZ> $28
<lar1> So 268+70+70+20+28+80+150+150 sound about right?
<lar1> That about $500 too much
<lar1> hmm, I think I need a bigger budget
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0302
IRC log ended Tue Mar  2 00:00:00 1999