IRC log started Sun Jan 24 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0124 -dilbert(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all. In just a moment I'll be moving a number of systems from hubbing on carter over to koontz, in order to upgrade carter. Sorry about the inconvenience. !koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT fontana.openprojects.net 8004 from dilbert !koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT dickson.openprojects.net 8004 from dilbert !koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT gibson.openprojects.net 8004 from dilbert !koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT zsoldos.openprojects.net 8004 from dilbert ωνω SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has left #Tunes [] ωνω ultima_ [ultima@user-38lcn3c.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes ωνω Beholder [beholder@ppp-073.m2-2.sub.ican.net] has joined #tunes π Beholder/#tunes is AFK ωνω smkl [sami@ppp102.dial-in.verkkotieto.com] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff Beholder: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Beholder[ppp-073.m2-2.sub.ican.net]) ωνω SignOff ultima_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ultima_[user-38lcn3c.dialup.mindspring.com]) ωνω SignOff smkl: #TUNES (................) ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes ωνω ultima_ [ultima@user-37kbb13.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes What handling mia/dead links shouldnt wholely require a human if it does, that noone will bother and we'll end up w/ the same situation as we had s/that/than/ ωνω ultima__ [ultima@user-37kbb13.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes mmhmm do you know of link verification software ωνω SignOff ultima__: #TUNES (Leaving) 11:40am not really thers a section for it on metalab apps/www somewhere mmhmm we can deal with that in due time. I'll have the generator simply output a file with all the links, run a program, and parse the output of that and have it generate a listing of invalid links then a human could either remove then or update them...thats too hard for a puter to do because theres no standard way of handling it i know but what does 'invalid' mean? just 404 or what? just 404...itd be impossible to check for redirects because you never know if a redirect is just a title page or what thers also, content change as in, the content thot to be ther isnt ther but other content is thus not a 404 11:50am ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes hoy _QZ -dilbert(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [ServerNotice] If you're receiving this message, you are currently connected to crichton.openprojects.net in Marietta, Georgia, US. We'll be reupping the server momentarily to perform an upgrade. It should take just a moment. Please bear with us. ωνω Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success ωνω Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] ωνω BitchX: For more information about BitchX type /about ωνω Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from carter.openprojects.net) ωνω Your host is carter.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 (from carter.openprojects.net) ωνω This server was cobbled together Sat Jan 23 1999 at 21 33:38 EST(from carter.openprojects.net) ωνω carter.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv ωνω [local users on irc(12)] 6% ωνω [global users on irc(77)] 37% ωνω [invisible users on irc(132)] 63% ωνω [ircops on irc(10)] 5% ωνω [total users on irc(209)] ωνω [unknown connections(0)] ωνω [total servers on irc(28)] (avg. 7 users per server) ωνω [total channels created(62)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !carter.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 16 (15 clients) ωνω Mode change [+f] for user TUNES ωνω Mode change [+iw] for user TUNES ωνω TUNES [tunes@bespin.ml.org] has joined #tunes ωνω [Users(#TUNES:6)] [ TUNES ] [ _QZ ] [ ultima_ ] [ hcf ] [ abi ] [ Tril ] ωνω Channel #TUNES was created at Wed Dec 30 09:08:43 1998 ωνω BitchX: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.394 secs!! -^lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] For those who are wondering, we're still in the process of upgrading servers. This should go on for a few more minutes, and you'll be informed when an upgrade affects the server you are on. Thanks 01:10pm ωνω NetSplit: devlin.openprojects.net split from koontz.openprojects.net [01:13pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [devlin.openprojects.net] ωνω Netjoined: devlin.openprojects.net koontz.openprojects.net ωνω Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES ωνω SignOff ultima_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ultima_[user-37kbb13.dialup.mindspring.com]) ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes Gakuk! Tril: did you follow the misadventures of the Revie project, yesterday? what no I just logged on I ahven't been here for a few days ultima moved the Review files in an old/ subdirectory, unavailable by CVS, and replaced them with an announce that a new Revie stuff would be there RSN I got angry, and flamed him, then wrote the README.contribute and moved everything back did he receive your comment yet? he asked me to install mysql..he may be doing it himself i'll probably install the hdd tomorrow we can upgrade the distro later. 03:20pm ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[esmeralda.enst.fr]) ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes ACK? π Fare/#Tunes ARQs hello what did you get last from me before the server split? ultima moved the Review files in an old/ subdirectory, unavailable by and moved everything back / SignOff Fare ping timeout / ACK? CVS, and replaced them with an announce that a new Revie stuff would be there RSN I got angry, and flamed him, then wrote the README.contribute and moved everything back maybe I should apologize to ultima for getting so upset; maybe he should apologize for what he did, too. Anyway, it showed the lack of well-known agreed-upon rules for collaboration w/in the CVS. did you read anything I said? or it showed you worrying too much no, I didn't read anything from you except that you hadn't been here for a few days did he receive your comment yet? he asked me to install mysql..he may be doing it himself i'll probably install the hdd tomorrow we can upgrade the distro later. did he receive your comment yet? he asked me to install mysql..he may be doing it himself i'll probably install the hdd tomorrow we can upgrade the distro later. stupid mouse (x2) ωνω mode/#TUNES [+o Tril] by ChanServ 03:30pm can chanserv directly kick me? ωνω mode/#TUNES [+o Fare] by ChanServ i think not nickserv can automatically kill you, if someone reserves your nick and sets kill protect on will you upgrade to redhat? debian? yeah, one of those, after I try both on my home machine maybe you should first install the OS on the new disk, THEN put it in bespin? i'll do it the other way around, move the current OS to the new disk, then take out the old disks and install new OSes on them at home to test for a while maybe even you should NFS-copy all of bespin's important data to it, and configure it as bespin, too, so that all you have to do is switch disks and reboot? yes, i'll get a new bespin working at home before running it..i've done that before never used NFS, avoiding it oh, and get two root-able partitions on the new disk, so you can install stuff on it while it's running, and reboot on the other partition NFS can be good, in time/space-restricted environments (and read-only, too) two identical partitions? can ext2 do chroot at boot up almost chroot requirse you to have working /lib and /bin in the chrooted partition it also requires some tricks with mounting partitions in such ways that the path reported in the /proc/mounts works both on the normal and chrooted environments. like having evrythin in /0, and ln -s . /0/0 run all daemons from the same environment. hard linked directories... sweety is still down hard linked directories is EVIL btw, in two days, I'll be talking about my article, and dunno what to say I have a nice penguin tie write a summary of it, and read that 03:40pm someone will surely ask a question which will get you very upset and talk for hours about how something is lame. read? -ick- that will fill up your time slot just fine hehe i asked someone to add a link to tunes review..he said ok, but he had been reluctant because of all the "negative reviews" with no explanation oh, well. if someone pays me for reviews, I'll do them fully! hmm..beholder is worried about security? maybe he will do security for me on bespin.. ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) sure, if he's worried, he should manage it btw, I've made my own business for the conference, using LaTeX! had to do manual cut&paste, tho and use a 65% reduction on photocopier you mean business cards oops, yes you can see ~fare/fare/carte_visite.{tex,ps} RH5.2 FTP install works over modem? 5.1 FTP required a LAN. I wish I was good enough to insert a music score with notes fa re in halftone on the background... -dilbert(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all. We have one more server to update in this batch, and that's koontz. Since it is a major hub, there will be a fair amount of splitting. Please bear with us, it should be over relatively quickly. I'll send another notice just before the restart. ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (changing servers) ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes hum ftp install over modem might take days! so? so is probably gigabyte 03:50pm -dilbert(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Here goes koontz. See you all on the other side. :) so it sounds wierd to me, since we pay per connection time, in .fr! ωνω NetSplit: koontz.openprojects.net split from carter.openprojects.net [03:53pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [koontz.openprojects.net] ωνω Netjoined: koontz.openprojects.net carter.openprojects.net ωνω Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #TUNES ωνω ServerMode/#TUNES [+o Tril] by bear.openprojects.net ωνω abi [nef@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #TUNES unlimited dialup ppp is the standard in US, under $20 some more busy and slower than others that's a cultural difference !herbert.openprojects.net!! Received :carter.openprojects.net SERVER koontz.openprojects.net from carter.openprojects.net !?! ωνω NetSplit: koontz.openprojects.net split from carter.openprojects.net [03:55pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [koontz.openprojects.net] ωνω Netjoined: koontz.openprojects.net carter.openprojects.net ωνω abi [nef@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES -lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] The hub server restart referred to in my last two notices is now complete. Thanks to everyone for their patience and understanding! :) 04:00pm ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes what do you mean he put them "inaccessible to cvs"? wont cvs overwrite ~tunes/html when it updates precisely. he also broke the makefile system for the review subproject anyway, things are now back to normal, and there's a README.contribute ok ωνω dilbert [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has joined #tunes hi all....probably a good time to reset your topic lilo!? lilo is male, you can get to his home page from the About link on http://www.openprojects.net. ωνω Fare has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: Reflective Computing System - http://www.tunes.org/ π dilbert/#tunes is still not sure his gender is all that germane abi: forget lilo Fare: I forgot lilo Fare: I think no more server restarts for a while, we are into getting the code fixed for Solaris and libc5 now :) oops, hold on ωνω dilbert [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has left #tunes [] ωνω ^lilo [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has joined #TUNES <^lilo> ah, better abi: you can get lilo's home page from the About link on http://www.openprojects.net. some people were saying you were female abi: lilo is having a home page accessible from the About link on http://www.openprojects.net. lilo? lilo is having a home page accessible from the About link on http://www.openprojects.net. lilo: slowaris? libc5? ugh! <^lilo> yah, we're down to the last few odd systems :) 04:10pm <^lilo> but don't tell Teknix I said his Solaris system is 'odd' :) Fare: "lilo has a home page..." not "lilo is having...", what you wrote is present participle (progressive tense) Tril: tell that to abi! abi: you nuts! as if the home page is currently being made accessible while true, sounds awkward lilo: I'm going to give a talk about my latest paper. did you read it? what do you recommend? (20' talk) I have a penguin tie, and a penguin plush. Penguin shaped Linux box? i only have Pengiun vendor squares for my case not yet, but with a box with a penguin inside I have one, but put it on my monitor, since I don't own my laptop, and I fear the AT-type box won't survive long. lilo: do you know how to make business cards with LaTeX (or other free software)? Fare: do you want to approve the members who are allowed to write CVS, to make sure they know the instructions first? what free software would you use to make a big half-tone music score? <^lilo> Fare: I don't have anything handy to do business cards, it would just take some latex code Tril: at least, they should all be sent the README.contribute when they are entitled CVS access! π ^lilo/#TUNES knows there are some music packages that produce some sort of TeX music I think that the coordinator, i.e. Beholder, should be in charge about those details. lilo: if what I heard of musitex is correct, that's no go. I've heard that CMN -- CommonLISP Music Notation -- was good. Haven't tried it, tho <^lilo> oic Fare also, it means I have to mix postscript with LaTeX and get to superpose correctly the images. I dunno how to do that. Both .ps and .tex are much too low-level formats (each in its own way) there is a real need for a real high-level page-description/typesetting/etc language. maybe as an extension to the GIMP??? MS Word? lilo: Oh, I have a great project about a Free Software Auction Service. 04:20pm see around http://www.tunes.org/~fare/articles/fsas.html about a *very* preliminary article about it Fare: ? you know of one, or you are starting one? oh, an idea for one I'll try to get contacts at the french free software conference beginning tomorrow lilo: do you know people interested about setting up such a beast? perhaps folks at o'reilly? I'm sure that's the future of publishing: brokers of trust. Information brokers? you mean micropayments on software? nope. Trust brokers. to do what I mean macro-payments of software services, thru a fine-grained system that manages the hassle of having to trust people you don't know over the internet. like "I need a JPEG decoder in CommonLISP", for which Kelly Murray offers $500. you mean a global identification system for the internet wouldnt that reduce the privacy gained from anonymity? if a few more people did promise that money, and there was a broker who'd ensure that the promised transaction would be managed in a way fair to requesters and providers alike, then ok why anonimity? it's just the distance of the internet what I mean, is a broker in trust for transactions of free software development services. I can offer $10 for a device driver. So can 1000 other people. But unless there's a broker somewhere, that won't lead to the driver being written. wel,l, usually that trust comes from knowing the person, their reptuation Tril: exactly. You can't know everyone on every service you need. i dont understand The broker handles that trust business for you. of course, there's a free market in broking trust. if you offer $10 for some code, you post it on USENET. usenet is the broker. The driver is not written unless someone writes it. if you want to hire a temp agency to find someone to write a driver for you, then create a temp agency for coding for hire on the internet. 04:30pm exactly! the fsas is about raising money in a fine-grained way so as to allow internet-wide paid development of free software! except that yo can't develop software in a fine-grained way until tunes comes along. you can make do with current C "libraries", Perl modules, OCAML modules, etc. I sure hope TUNES will make things better, but it's a mostly separate issue. ahahahaha someone sends "unsubscribe" to a list post address, but with a 2.5KB S/MIME cryptographic signature. This is good news, crypto is getting so easy even newbies can use it! does fwprc do udp 04:40pm <_QZ> any1 know of any mp3 sites? France is freeing crypto! QZ: sweety.tunes.org ;-> <_QZ> Fare: other than sweety Tril: no QZ: oh, so are YOU the one who took down sweety by copying gigs of mp3? Fare: I thought that's why you were cheering the other day. That's when I read the news on slashdot France was increasing the limit to 128 bits or is there a newer announcement? that's temporary, until the law is amended to completely free crypto yes, well, that just means they have the system in place which can read your monitor through the solid walls. (except that law enforcement may ask you to release clear-text data if asked) Tril: of course. So what? maybe all new hard drives have transmitters in them _QZ how hard is it to detect EM <_QZ> what kind of em? uh, the generic kind (any freq) you can put you computer inside an iron cage, with an autonomous power generator, and a cryptographic noise emitter <_QZ> EMI right? i want to detect all electromagnetic radiation on all frequnecies <_QZ> EMI is divided into bands i dont mean interference <_QZ> u have radio, IR, visual, ultra viloet, xray and gamma <_QZ> gamma will be the most difficult to detect <_QZ> since the equipment is huge i just need a standard Starfleet issue tricorder detects everything <_QZ> radio u just need an antenna and receiver including "life" and "anomalies" <_QZ> ir u just need an ir tranistor <_QZ> or one of them kewl little strips raido shack sells that glow when hit with IR QZ: where are microwaves? <_QZ> oh ya and microwaves <_QZ> but microwaves can be part of radio 04:50pm <_QZ> Tril: what are u doing? editing the issue.net taking a braek from my homework <_QZ> why do u need to know this? to detect whether my HDD is being remotely downloaded through some hidden built-in transmitter <_QZ> ahh <_QZ> well it obviously would fall in the rf range I doubt anyone can remotely d/l a HD <_QZ> so just setup a grounded shield around yer computer and possbile lots of concrete and other metal <_QZ> that way nothing can leave yer computer the irc monitors have now read my idea and are implementing it (oops i shouldnt have said it) it's mucho easier to detect keyboard and mouse input and video output ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (back to homework) 05:00pm ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Back to the Tunes OS project -- /whowas Fare) <^lilo> every potato system, your very own VRMS! Thats right, your very own Virtual Richard M. Stallman!! (Mercury)~every potato system, your very own VRMS! Thats right, your very own Virtual Richard M. Stallman!! (Mercury)every potato system, your very own VRMS! Thats right, your very own Virtual Richard M. Stallman!! (Mercury)every potato system, your very own VRMS! Thats right, your very own Virtual Richard M. Stallman!! (Mercury)every potato system, your ver <^lilo> 917221543 *** Users on #TheBar: ^lilo Major MidNite <^lilo> 917221543 *** Channel #TheBar was created on Sun Jan 24 08:15:51 1999 <^lilo> 917221545 > oops, sometimes I really hate ircII :) <^lilo> 917221613 > last server would be koontz for now <^lilo> 917222007 *** Netsplit at 15:53:27 (varley.openprojects.net koontz.openprojects.net) <^lilo> 917222036 *** Netjoined at 15:53:56 (varley.openprojects.net koontz.openprojects.net) <^lilo> 917222104 *** Lethal (lethal@AS52-18-137.cas-kit.golden.net) has joined channel #thebar <^lilo> 917223455 > all done for now <^lilo> 917221543 *** ^lilo (lilo@varley.openprojects.net) has joined channel #TheBar <^lilo> 917221543 *** Users on #TheBar: ^lilo Major MidNite <^lilo> 917221543 *** Channel #TheBar was created on Sun Jan 24 08:15:51 1999 <^lilo> 917221545 > oops, sometimes I really hate ircII :) <^lilo> 917221613 > last server would be koontz for now <^lilo> 917222007 *** Netsplit at 15:53:27 (varley.openprojects.net koontz.openprojects.net) <^lilo> 917222036 *** Netjoined at 15:53:56 (varley.openprojects.net koontz.openprojects.net) <^lilo> 917222104 *** Lethal (lethal@AS52-18-137.cas-kit.golden.net) has joined channel #thebar <^lilo> 917223455 > all done for now <^lilo> oops, sorry ωνω caiman [caiman@d021.paris-101.cybercable.fr] has joined #TUNES <^lilo> oops, sorry all <_QZ> hmm, i vote that lilo gets klined :) <^lilo> hehe QZ, I'll just wander off now :) ωνω ^lilo [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has left #TUNES [] ωνω ^lilo [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has joined #TUNES <_QZ> heh <^lilo> (sorry all, I'm doing spring cleaning :) <^lilo> (hit that paste button by mistake) ωνω ^lilo [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has left #TUNES [] 05:40pm ωνω SignOff caiman: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω tcn [tcn@cci-209150250106.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) ωνω lar1 [larman@153.37.10.16] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω ^lilo [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has joined #TUNES <^lilo> hi all ωνω ^lilo [lilo@varley.openprojects.net] has left #TUNES [] 10:00pm ωνω SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) [msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0125 IRC log ended Mon Jan 25 00:00:01 1999